012 - How to Say No, When to Start a Business, and Does Running Ever Get Easier

[0:00] All right, here we go. The podcast that never wanted to start. We're here. Uh, what is this show? Yeah. Oh yeah. Build Horizons. Welcome to Build Horizons. It's one of those mornings, isn't it? It is. Uh, but before we start talking, you have to do the part of the intro so we can play the intro music thing. Uh, what do I say? Welcome to Build Horizons, a show about picking the life that you want to lead and how to make it happen. Flawless. And now,

[1:04] uh, this is, yeah, first off, I'm Jeff, you're Katy. We have to get the intro out of the way. Um, yeah, hit subscribe. This has been the worst intro we've ever had, Jeff. No, I, I felt like we just had to just roll into it because that's how today has basically been. It's gonna be a shorter episode this week. I think we're gonna have to cut it short at, uh, about 10 minutes or so because hashtag real life. We started late and we have to get kids on the bus and I think we're gonna have about 10 minutes to do that, and I have to, have to leave to get on an airplane. Uh, it's been, so we were really ambitious last night deciding that we were gonna record the podcast this morning. Yeah. Well, you know, here we are, and so we're gonna, we're gonna hop into things. Um, we're gonna talk about, I got a, got a couple questions, got a couple topics, but, uh, first I feel like it is most fitting, uh, that we use this as our intro into the podcast today. Uh, we went on a bike ride, uh, this past weekend. Yep. Um, and how did that go? I would like you to take the reins with this one. Oh, you want me to tell the story? Okay. Well, here's the thing. I haven't, I'm not really, okay, so I'm more of an indoor bike person rather than an outdoor bike person, um, but Jeff says I never want to ride bikes with him, so I said, well, we're going to change that and we'll go on a bike ride.

[2:33] And, well, I had not ever clipped into outdoor riding, but I clip in all the time for indoor riding, and so I thought I would be totally fine. Well, it is very different, um, when you have a bike that can actually fall over, and you were trying to walk me through gears and going, and then I kind of accidentally got one of my, um, feet clicked in my shoes. You were stationary, I guess. Yeah, I was, but I didn't really mean to, like, it was. I thought you were actively trying to clip in your shoes. Well, I was, but not, I was trying, but I also didn't. I accidentally succeeded in what I was trying to do. I didn't think it was going to go, but then it did go. And then since I wasn't moving, gravity decided to pull me down and I, I ate it pretty hard on the asphalt. Yeah. I felt bad. Busted up my knee. Yeah. I'm glad that this was post marathon crash, not, oh gosh, I didn't even think about that. Well, um, you know, so how long is it gonna have to be till we actually, uh, do one another bike ride, and then two, how long until you are willing to try to clip in again? I don't know if I'll clip in ever again. I was terrified. I actually think there's something wrong with my shoes, though, because I don't feel like it should have been that hard to click in to begin with, but I don't know. I really, I'm really okay, because that's what we did. We went home and I cleaned up my knee and my arm and then I put on regular tennis shoes and we had a great time. So regular tennis shoes might be my jam, and that's fine. I don't have to be a cool biker. Katy is out there biking in big old Hokas.

[4:22] There's nothing wrong with that. You got to make sure you're minimizing the impact of your pedal making contact with your foot. Yep. It was, but you know what, we did it. And was I slow? Yes. Um, but was it a good time? Sure. Yeah, we had a good time doing it. We can do it again. Oh, we're getting spammed liked by this person on the live stream. I just want to say thank you. Thank you, person spam liking us. Yeah, thank you. Um, and yeah, what, we are working a little bit on getting the live stream ability a little bit better every, every week is a little bit better on the live stream. I would love to get questions at some point. Yes, I would love that too. So we have, right now we're chilling on TikTok. Uh, we have gone live on YouTube before and I've looked up how to handle doing multiple at the same time and aggregating the chat and stuff like that, so that'll be fun. And if you have any questions, TikTok friends, ask away. Yeah, ask away. We can actually see them this time. Yep. Yep. So yeah, bike crash this week was a great time. And also I'm crying because it's allergy season now here in Kansas. So I can't stop my eyes from wandering. So, um, we have a couple different, um, actual company related topics. Um, but I do think it would be kind of fun to talk a little bit about making some of the shifts that we made with the layout of our house.

[5:51] Yeah, that's so fun. That was kind of unplanned, um, not how, unlike us to be spontaneous and change something. We're very, I, here's the thing, I am not a spontaneous person. You are, and you kind of dropped this bomb on me and was like, hey, have I picked your brain yet about this thing? And I'm like, no, this is literally the first time I'm hearing about it. But I knew, I knew as soon as you said it, that was going to be our day that day. So, um, from your, from your perspective, what was the rationale behind making a shift? So I guess before I do that to, to give background on what we did. So I have a office downstairs in our basement and I go down there occasionally, but with the business and, um, and yeah, the things going on with that, I really do need to be at that machine more often, um, to do some of the things that I'm wanting to do, like, and practically it's, uh, I guess now I'm answering the own, my own question as to why, my, my reasoning behind that is I, I really do need to just reduce the amount of friction it is to get the harder work stuff done. And if I have to go downstairs and be completely away from my family, like, that's just a bummer. And so being able to still be, you know, working on things but present and available if, like, there's something that Katy needs to be to hop off real quick and help, or the kids are around and they need something, or, um, or just, you know, being physically present is different than, you know, being sectioned off in the house downstairs in the basement by myself. Um, and so, you know, the idea there being, uh, just reducing the amount of effort it would take in order to be able to, to get in and do some actual focused work, uh, with all the right tools and stuff in place. And so we, we made the switch of getting that, um, moved upstairs. We had kind of like a little reader recliner type area in the side of our bedroom. And it was funny because at our old house, our bedroom was quite a bit, as a

[7:52] lot smaller than our current bedroom. And you always tried to get me to say, okay, to having a chair in there, but there was genuinely no place for it. So when we moved into this house, um, you basically said, okay, now that we have the space, can I please have my recliner and or chair in the bedroom? And so we made that happen and I thought that you were happy and it was all good, but that wasn't actually, which we found out later on. That wasn't exactly what was going to fit the need of what you were needing. Yeah, and, and so we, we got a little, we went and, and tried a bunch of things and, uh, sat in a bunch of chairs for standing desk. Office Max. Office Max, which is also the same as Office Depot, apparently got acquired or something. Emerged, yeah. And, um, you also got an office chair that was, well, I was in desperate need of a good office chair. My, uh, my office chair was not kind to my back. So we both, yeah, we went and sat on, I think, every chair there was. I mean, I think we did sit on every chair there was, pretty much. Absolutely, yeah. Spent a while testing out chairs, um, and then rolling them up to desks and testing them out at a desk.

[9:08] Yeah, that was a fun experience for sure. Um, but yeah, the, the setup now is I can do all of my computery goodness things, um, at that machine, and I've already found that to be super, super helpful. Yeah, yeah. So we moved our recliner out and moved the desk in, a new office chair. Jeff was so kind to pick one that was aesthetically pleasing, but it was also very comfortable, so I was happy for that. Um, and yeah, I think it's, I honestly think this has always been the solution you've been looking for, is to have an actual setup in the bedroom because. And we do. We spend a lot of time in our bedroom. Yeah, it's definitely our end-of-day chill place and obviously in the morning place. So I have two stories about this. One, kind of funny, could have been a lot worse. And then two, a kind of cool realization. So first off, I mentioned we moved the recliner out of that room and moved it downstairs. And first off, Katy had offered like, Oh, well, you could, because she was going to be gone doing some other stuff. You could ask our neighbor to come help you bring it downstairs.

[10:23] He's the nicest guy ever. He's the nicest guy ever. Yeah. But yeah, I was like, yeah. But yeah, I know. I knew as soon as I said it. Yeah. No way. No way with Jeff ever. I'll even know how bad something would have to be for me to go over to my neighbor's house to knock on the door and be like, hi, I'm sorry to interrupt your day. Can you please come over here and fill in the blank? That, I don't know, that feels like a fate worse than death. I've asked him to help me move stuff in before when you were out. Okay, was he just outside or did you go knock on the door? No, no, he was outside and we were talking. I'm like, hey, I have this really, and I did not realize how heavy it was at the time. It was so bad. This is a good story, actually. Can we take a little side story? So Jeff was out of town for work and I don't even, what in the world did we have delivered? I do not remember. Maybe, I can't remember what it was. It was something got delivered and I had tried to move it in. Actually, I know exactly what it was. What was it? One of these bookcases, right? Bookshelves. They were so heavy. So I tried to move it and I mean, it was one of those moments where you go to grab something to even move it like an inch and like it didn't budge. Um, so I'm like, yeah, well, I'm not gonna be able to move this at all. So I'm like, okay, that's fine, I will think of another way to get these in the house, because obviously I didn't want them to sit on our front porch for multiple days because you were gone. So poor David, our wonderful neighbor, he had his dogs out and about and they were running around, our kids are playing with their dogs, and I asked if he could help me move them in, you know, thinking like I would help him, but they were kind of long, awkward, so he just kind of like bared it up and moved it in and it was really hard for him. And in the moment his dogs came busting into our house, and no, we're not

[12:24] talking small dogs. I mean, not small, Great Dane, big dog. Um, so it was quite the, it was quite the moment. But sorry, I didn't mean to sidetrack it there, but yeah, I have no, I did feel really bad because it was very heavy and there were two of them, but he helped me a lot that day. But anyways, all that to say, I'm fine with asking neighbors for help whenever, but Jeff will not ever ask neighbors for help. No, that seems quite unlikely. Um, the other, so my, my story with bringing the stuff downstairs, um, moving the recliner downstairs is, um, I had asked Averyn to like kind of spot for me, cause I basically just talked, hulked the thing up and got over, and we have like a, we have a gate that goes over our downstairs. Um, so that our dogs don't go downstairs and use it as a giant bathroom. Cause they're bad. They're so naughty. Um, and, and so I get up to that. I'm like, all right, bud, I need you to help me make sure I get this thing clear. Cause I couldn't really see the way I was holding it. And, um, and he was like, dad, just set it down, just set it down. I'm like, no, I'm fine. Like, just tell me if I'm going to get caught on anything. He's like, just set it down, just set it down. Um, I'm like, Avery, it's fine. And so I just, he was just like, could not get, he was very stressed about the whole thing.

[13:40] That sounds very much like our son. And so I pull it over, but then it does like the corner of it gets caught on the stupid gate. And, um, and then I, and then he like yells like, cause I'm like starting to fall over and I'm like, I'm going to fall. And then like in a moment of like just praying that it would work out, I like shoved it verdict, like vertically to go down the stairs and just held on to the thing, and then like braced myself to not fall, and like it kind of, I mean, it landed a little hard but not too bad, and then like I was able to hold on and not fall down on top of it and took an exhale. I'm like, all right, we made it over the gate, and then I brought downstairs. It was pretty easy after that, but, um, but even helped, right? Oh yeah, and that was gonna be my second story. So other than almost dying on the stairs, um, I, I will say, man, that was a quite a tweak of the wrist. Um, that was, that was not super pleasant. The, the thing that was actually kind of cool and just like a nice moment of realization is, um, then I had to get the, your office, my office chair in, and this big old box, and heavy, yeah. And, uh, I could, I could not get it in myself, like it was just, it's too big and too awkward to pull in myself. And so I'm like, hey bud, come. He's 10 years old, for, uh, anybody listening at home, and it was the first time, because like we, I have lots of dad tasks that I invite the kids to come help with, and helping is, especially when they're little, like has been basically zero percent help and 100 parenting. Yeah, but like that starts to be a lighting scale a little bit over time.

[15:18] And like Alice, for example, she likes to help me cook and you know, it's helpful a little bit. It's becoming more and more helpful over time anyways. So I had this big old box and it was pretty heavy and I was not convinced that we were going to be able to get it in. I was going to have to wait until you got back. Um, but turns out a 10 year old boy can help take the things up the stairs. And like, he did a good job. Like we made it inside. I was impressed. Yeah, it's like, all right. And then it was kind of a cool moment too, it was like, I have realized now I have a new person in the house that could help carry heavy things. This is great news. Now getting him motivated to do that would be probably hard if it was a bunch of stuff, but yeah, helping carry on something occasionally. We don't have too many heavy things coming in the house, thankfully. I don't know, it feels like, I don't know, more than average. Yeah. Um, all right, so, so yeah, anyways, um, the goal really with the, the rearranging of things, the only thing I wanted to mention on that is it is important to reduce friction for, uh, hard work. Um, if you have something that is causing you, uh, you know, to not get some of the stuff done that you're wanting to get done, figuring out ways to make that happen, um, can, can really set yourself up for success with that. You know, we've talked about that with running and stuff like that, like setting out your, the, you know, the clothes that you're going to run in the morning, um, out on your nightstand or whatever, that can help make that, you know, if you just reduce the amount of friction that that has in the morning, uh, or whatever time that you're wanting to do, whatever it is you're wanting to do, that could be the difference between starting a habit and maintaining a habit versus giving up and not being able to make it something that sticks. Yeah. And I think sometimes too you just have to try it, because even when we were moving things around trying to get you all set up, you didn't really know. You said, well, I just got to try this first, see how it goes. Yeah.

[17:15] Um, so don't be afraid to try something either if you think it could potentially help, um, because yeah, I think that this actually, as far as, um, productivity and getting things done and you having the space to actually sit at a desk rather than working so much on a laptop, is going to exponentially help get just things done quicker. Yep. Um, so yeah, I think don't be afraid to try things out that, you know, you don't know if it's going to work or not, because sometimes it might be exactly what you needed in order to, um, have the progress that you were looking for. Yeah. All right, should we do questions? Sure, yeah, let's go for it. Got a couple. You want to do the first one? Um, yes. Okay, number one, right? Because it's not highlighted. Okay, sorry. Yeah, I mean, you could basically just read the highlighted part, the, basically this question thing. Okay, so this question comes from the Alpha Adept and their question is how to stop being a people pleaser and saying yes to everything without making people think you only care about yourself. Yep. I think that this is a really important skill to learn, for sure. Yeah, I, it's like, um, definitely something that I have struggled with a little bit over the years because the answer to how you do this, um, is to be good about saying no and knowing that that won't be the answer that people are looking for. People don't ask questions of, or ask for you to do things if they're looking for a no. And so the, that, that, I mean, ultimately that is the answer. Yeah. Um, but how to become comfortable with that is, is a little bit challenging. Yeah. Um, and you know, I, I definitely am better at that now,

[19:17] but, um, I, I definitely think like if that, if I could go back in time. And honestly, if I could probably talk to myself, if I, if I was answering this question five years from now, and I was to go back in time and talk to me now, um, this is probably also something I would tell myself to be even better at, which is, you know, it, sometimes the, the focus that you get through being able to remove other variables can be the, all the, make all the difference. And, uh, you know, the, that, that ability, that practice of saying no to things is super critical. It's super critical if you have ambitions to go do some cool thing or start something new. Starting something new, it's impossible to just do all the same things that you've always done and then add some other new habit to it. So you'll have to figure that out, how to remove something in order to make room for something else. But then if you want to take that something else to the next level, you're going to have to also find other things to say no to, the, the thing that, um, you know, I, reflecting on myself and what I've done over the years, um, that the realization that I, by default do want to be a people pleaser.

[20:38] And so I'm going to look for ways to say, yes, I think there's benefit in that bias because you become, you know, a good problem solver or, you know, trying to find amicable solutions and stuff like that, but it is, it is a strength that gets overplayed too far. Uh, we had to pick out, uh, quotes to put on our door, uh, outside your door, like, underneath your nameplate, and, uh, I can't remember even who said mine, but mine is the art of leadership is saying no, not yes. It's very easy to say yes. Yeah. Just as a reminder to myself, uh, that, that I, I'm not going to have a problem finding ways to do things when it gets hard. Like, that's not, that's not my problem. My problem is finding things that are shiny objects, uh, and figuring out how to, how to say no to those things. Yeah. And I think one of my, so Robin Arzon is a Peloton instructor. I really enjoy taking her classes, but she is adamant on protecting your yes. So you, like, that's a valuable asset to you. So you have to protect your yes, because you're the only one that's going to do it. Nobody else is going to do it for you.

[21:55] Yeah. And I think the other side of it, too, is part of this question is without making people think you only care about yourself, like, you have to just put that out of your head because you cannot control what people think about you. You can only control the actions that you take for yourself. So you have to just step away and not be thinking about, well, I don't want people to think that this certain thing about me, because here's the thing, like, you're not going to control you. You can't control what people think. Yeah. So you have to just eliminate that completely. And I know that's, that's easier said than done, especially if you, you are a people pleaser. But. You're, you're only going to be your own. You are your own advocate. And so you have to protect your yes. And I do think this is something that comes easier with experience and. And I don't know, age. Yeah. Um, because it's, you know, when you're young and, um, learning all the things, of course you want to say, and I don't think it's bad to say yes to things, you know, especially if it's something that you do have a lot of interest in, because I do think that's how opportunities happen. But as you get busier in life and your plate starts getting full, you need to recognize that and be able to tell people no. And yes, people are not going to like that.

[23:19] They might feel a certain way initially, but it will, and if, and, you know, you don't, and you don't owe them anything other than, yeah, no, sorry, I can't do that right now. But I don't know, I just think there's something really important about being your own advocate and that yes is a valuable asset and something that is, you need to view as, um, I don't know, what's the word I'm looking for, like, a gift, um, for, for people. So anyways, that was just another thing I wanted to say, because actually that's something Robin Arzon is very adamant on, is protecting your yes and, and saying no. Sorry, I got distracted because TikTok has invited us to go co-host. That's so funny. How, how would that even work? Like, hey, come on in, join our podcast. Well, it would just be on the live stream, so very one-sided for people listening at home. Um, yeah, a couple points on that, uh, that I think would be worth highlighting. One, in, in addition to, you know, people are going to have the opinions that they're going to have, I also will say the amount that people will actually care is probably one one hundredth of how we inflate it in our heads. So you are making a decision based on something that you've got a variable way out of whack on. Maybe they'll have, like, an initial five second thought. Yeah. But they're, they got their own things going on. Yeah.

[24:53] They are almost assuredly not going to be wondering about, I wonder if what they think is so important that they're not doing this thing that I asked them to do. Like, it's unlike, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it's not. Yeah. But if they do that, again, you have no control over that and you just need to, again, not overthink that either. Yeah. And the, the other thing, you also at some point just have to decide how much do I want to drive my life and how much do I want to let others drive of my life, and pick the, the destination that I'm going toward, because, uh, you know, that, the adage that, like, how you spend your hours and how you spend your days is ultimately how you spend your life. And if you give too many of those up, you are letting other people spend your life. You only get one. And so what do you want to do with that? Where do you want to go? And, and when you think about like, okay, these are the things that I want to achieve, uh, or these are the things that I want that matter to me that I want to be able to look back on that I did, how much of that can I do with my current obligations and how much of that would I not be able to get to if I said yes to some other things, or if I did the other things other people maybe make me feel like I should have to do. The, the you, a lot of things in life are not zero-sum games, but time really is.

[26:21] Like, at the end of the day, we are going to run out. So you don't, you don't get to, like, you don't get to go back and replay that. So like, you're going to spend your, like, everything up to this point you've spent the way that you're going to have spent it, and going forward, you know, what you commit yourself to is ultimately the destination that you're going to head toward. And making that be more intentional and deciding, honestly, like, just how much of that do you want to make the call on and verse how much do you want to let other people drive, like, that, that is a, that is the, that is a decision that you are making whether you're thinking about it that way or not. Exactly. I think that is the thing too, because I think a lot of people say yes, but they don't realize that is the impact that they aren't getting. And again, some people want to do the thing that they're asked to do, but I think if, you know, you really need to reflect on it before you take on another commitment, especially if your plate is already full, and really evaluate, does this make sense right now? And if it doesn't make sense right now, maybe it'll make sense later on. Um, so just be intentional about that and, and really view your yes as a gift to other people. Yeah, and, and then, like, the last thing that I jotted down here that I wanted to make sure to hit on too, just because you don't have something planned during it, like, if somebody asks you, like, hey, what are you doing this weekend? Uh, and then maybe the answer is nothing, or at least nothing that, like, has a hard start and stop, so they're like, there's, you know, the answer is like, I don't know, just kind of doing stuff around the house or whatever, right? That does not obligate you then to feeling like you should say yes to whatever the next thing is. You know, just because you have an empty calendar spot does not entitle someone else to, you know, figuring out how you should spend that. Like, and you know, that, that sounds kind of heartless and mean, but like, at the same time, it really does just come back to, you know, the person

[28:22] who comes up with the first idea for how you should spend your weekend is not necessarily the person who should be making the call on what that time is. Yeah, and just, like, kind of going back to some of those other things we just talked about is, you know, there's maybe going to be a passing thought here, there, uh, but really you have to, have to make that call. You have to decide what's more important and, and be willing to be what seems like a little selfish so that you can do the things that you want to do. Yeah. Oh, I think that that's really good. I did not know that was the quote on your door. Really? No. Yeah. I had no idea. That's funny. I love it. Um, okay. So should we go to question number two? We should go to question number two. Okay. So this one comes from upset train 4743. How did you know it was time to start your business? And they go on to say, I've always wondered how people actually decide when to stop thinking about an idea and just go for it. Um, did you have any, did you have everything planned out first, or just start with what you had and figure out things along the way? I don't know, I was just reading through the questions, honestly, and anytime I see anything like this, I just can't help myself. Like, I have to go spread the good news, which is, um, just, just start. Yeah. Down the path, and it will be nigh unrecognizable when you actually make it to wherever the destination is. And honestly, the thought of a destination is almost a fallacy in itself, in and of itself. Like, it's just going to continue to evolve, uh, and you're not going to be able to figure it out. Like, there's not, there's not some thing out there that you're just going to, like, all right, I figured out everything I need to know for this business.

[30:09] And so now it's just a matter of execution. That's not even what it is. Like the, the whole thing about business is experimentation. And you know, the, the, again, like there's just no amount of time that you can spend planning. That's going to result in not having to just completely scrap everything. I mean, again, I, I, I understand that like that speaking a little bit in, um, hyperbole, but like not that far into hyperbole. Like it really, it really is. You have to be willing to throw it all away and, and, and start over and make shifts and pivot. And that doesn't mean like lack of focus and like just going from one thing to the next, like focus is important, but not being tied to the thing that you came up with when you knew the things that you knew at the time. And now that you've learned a bunch of things and understand the game a little bit better, you're going to have different answers to the same questions. And you have to be willing to make those shifts. And once you realize like, okay, I'm going to have to rethink how I do this probably 30 times. It really takes the pressure off of getting it right this time. I just need to try honestly anything and learn some stuff and then be willing to pivot. Once you get into doing that, it really does take a lot of that pressure off. I'm not going to figure it out, and so I don't have to have it be perfect.

[31:40] And that is just the brass tacks of it. I would be shocked to hear that someone wrote down all of their stuff and then they went and at all. And it was just a matter of execution after that. Like, that's just not how it works. Yeah. Does that, um, so, you know, we talked at the top about me spontaneously deciding to reorganize how we laid out our house, uh, in order to be a little bit more productive. So definitely willing to be spontaneous and just go with the flow for myself personally, for someone who is a little bit more of a planner or feels a little bit more uncertain. And, um, is there parts of that that are harder to swallow than others or things that you have to keep in mind any differently? Oh yeah. And I'm like, I know we've mentioned this is I'm a very risk adverse person. I don't like risk. I like safe, safe and not going, um, in a way that I feel is unknown. So I think for me, it's, it has been hard. There's been moments that it's been hard, um, especially because, you know, we've tried things and it hasn't exactly panned out the way we thought. So we've had to pivot. I've gotten a little more comfortable with it as we've been going along. Um, and I, and I also have a lot of trust in you. Like I know you, you have good leadership skills, you are brilliant, and I do have a lot of faith in the things that you're doing and I believe in what you're doing.

[33:09] And super good looking. Oh my gosh. Um, yes, but also I, so stupid. Um, but I do think it's hard for someone like me had, do I think me by myself would have started a company? Probably not, but I do appreciate the, um, push that you have done for myself. Cause it's been a good growing experience for me and I'm still growing. Like I'm definitely not there yet. Um, but I think that, yeah, there's just no amount of time that you can like think through something before there is going to be a hiccup in the road or something that you just hadn't planned for. And I've worked for more startups than you have. I mean, I don't, you've never, obviously you've never worked for a startup. You've been at the same place forever. Except for mine. Except for yours. Yep. Except for your startup. Um, but for the startups that I've worked with, um, yeah, there's just always things that you can't anticipate happening that you just have to learn how to work through and, um, find ways around it. But yeah, for someone like me, that is definitely more risk adverse, not, I like safe. I don't like, necessarily, I don't mind change, but I don't probably look for change. Um, it's a little harder for sure. So I'm curious, and, and this is where my brain is probably just a little bit broken, because I think of, like, passive and active risk as the same thing, because risk is risk. But when I hear risk averse, it usually feels like that is a fear of active risk, meaning like what I'm talking about with that is because not deciding to take a business also has risk.

[35:10] it's just, you didn't make an active choice to do it. Whereas like, it's like, I'm, I'm setting down this path intentionally as opposed to, Oh, I'm just going down this other path unintentionally. Um, I don't really know where my question or thought was there. Um, but is it like, I mean, you're going down a path in life, um, and it's going to have, you know, ups and downs, there's risk to literally everything that you do. So is it, is it more of just like making, like I'm, I'm now picking this as the thing. And so I know that I'm going to be responsible for the ups and downs as opposed to feeling a little bit more like I can blame the universe for my problems if I don't go down this road. And I, you know, and I'll be real, like it's the, it's the financial risk for me. I think that that's where I get most nervous is anytime that there's a financial impact to something, which obviously starting a company and doing all this, it's not cheap. It costs money. It's an investment. And I think that is maybe where I'm most risk adverse is anytime that it's a financial investment that you cannot, you don't know for a fact what that, um, return is going to be, right? Yeah, that is, I think, what mostly makes me, I don't know, I don't want to say anxious, but just less sure. Um, but I think that's maybe what it is. I think it's more of a financial impact than it is, I don't know, like, yes, everything in life has risk.

[36:51] I guess actually the financial is a really easy way for me to talk through, like, my philosophy on risk, because like, if you want the most traditional way to reduce risk in your portfolio, it would be just to have it in cash. like literally just have it sitting in a, in a savings account, checking account, whatever. And there it will probably earn approximately no money. Um, while inflation grows at, let's say optimistically two and a half percent or whatever. So in reality, it's quote less risky, but it's only less risky because you've chosen to lose money. Like you are actively going to like, you're, you've chosen, it's not risky because you've chosen to lose. Like, whereas if you put that into stock market, technically it's more risky, but for the last a hundred years, it's grown 10%. So yes, technically it will have more ups and downs, just like starting a business will have more ups and downs, certainly more volatile. But if you choose to just have that sitting in cash, you've reduced risk by picking the losing hand. Like if you went to the casino and you just burned the money instead of at least took a chance. I don't know, it's a bad example because I hate gambling, because you just lose your money no matter what. But you know, it, the, you are picking a path that has already taken certain positive outcomes off the table by reducing risk. So yeah, I don't know. The, it's hard though. I, I, because there's also a part of, too, where it's your mental health and your mental well-being to just know that, hey, my money is safe in a savings account and it's not going to change, and I know how much is there and how much it's going to be waiting for me. Because there's also that side, too. It's just having that.

[38:46] You can always make more money. There we go. I think it's just a, I don't know, a personality resource. Yeah, I don't know. All right, um, enough of that. Hey, can we make a big, uh, shift and do the third one? Because that actually was from our chat last week. Oh, nice. And I told this person that I would do their question. Okay, so we were talking about running last time because we had ran our marathon. Yep, yep. Uh, which our Sydney video should be coming out soon. There was just a lot, which actually we'll explain. What, we got about 10 minutes left, so I will, or we will explain why our Sydney video is taken forever right after this question. Okay, so we'll do this. Got it. Question from last week's chat is, does running ever feel easier? Yeah, I kind of summarized a little bit, but yeah, basically, does running ever feel easier, Katy? Yeah, it does. Um, it takes time. Um, it's a little harder. I don't know it, I think it just takes time and conditioning. Yeah. You have to learn kind of your different heart rates. I think that that's really important, um, to understand like, what is a low intensity run? Where should you be at a high intensity run? But I also know when you're first starting out, it's, it's like, they're all high intensity, high intensity, but understand that the more you commit to it, the more your body's going to change, the more your cardiovascular system, your anaerobic, your aerobic systems are going to start building up and, um, you will feel that impact and it might be, it's, it's small. It's very granular. Um, especially when you've been in it for a while. I do know though, I do feel like you have a lot more, um, I don't know, advice on this because you did start kind of from literally nothing, where I always kind of did some kind of walking, you know, keeping myself as active as I could. Yeah. In the moment. Um, but you really did kind of come from ground zero.

[40:47] Yeah, I mean, I, I, I was not a active person when I started running, and so I can, you know, I mean, it's been a little bit now, but I can definitely still remember the, the feeling that is like when you haven't really, when you haven't ran, uh, and forever and you start running the, it is a very unpleasant experience. Yeah. It's hard. And not like gasping. Oh, you just can't catch your breath. I mean, it's just like, it's like, I remember when I would start and then like, you kind of get going and you're maybe a minute in. And so like, cause like, you know, it takes a second for your heart rate to ramp up, but like, there's definitely a physiological thing that like your body is like I'm done, I don't want to, like, how do I, how do I stop this? How do I stop this? How do I stop this? Also, we're getting FaceTimed by a kid. This would be an interesting podcast thing, but we're about to be done. Oh my gosh, we are getting FaceTimed. Um, I don't, yeah, I don't have my notes anymore. Um, boy, life is easy some days and not so easy other days. This is one of those. Maybe we've got it all in the beginning of the day though, so the rest of the day is gonna feel solid, I'm sure. I'm notorious for having no issues flying, uh, at all with any delays whatsoever.

[42:05] Um, so yeah, it, your, your body just wants to stop. I mean, and, and that was what made me not understand how possible, like how it was possible for people to get into distance running because it's like, that is the least enjoyable feeling ever. What I did was decide, like, I'm going to give this a go. And if I get into this and you know, I'm a month in and it still feels like this, then I just know that like, there's something about me, I'm broken. Uh, and I just know that then, you know, distance running is not for yours truly. And so I went down, uh, the path of figuring that out for myself. The answer was eventually it does get easier and you end up building a, a lower gear, that lower effort that you did not have before. So it's not, you're not crazy for not enjoying any part of it because you don't have that gear when you start. I mean, unless you're like 18 years old or something. Yeah. Yeah. And you also had, you had some weight to lose too. No doubt. Yeah. And the, the crazy thing is, is like, once you do start to have the ability to run slowly and not have your heart rate just be escalating out of control. And then you're just like pegging at top line and wanting to die.

[43:26] Once you can, you know, run with a 130 heart rate, uh, you might have to go extremely slow at first, but being willing to do that and then realize like, Oh, it's not completely misery. And I don't, I'm not going to feel completely dead afterwards. It's like, wow, this is a completely different experience than what I thought running was. And that, if you've never done distance running and you've never gotten to the point where you have that lower gear, I would encourage you to give that a go because that is different. It's much, much, much more enjoyable and much, much, much less mentally taxing. In fact, I would argue it's the opposite of that. It can be really balancing to, to have the ability to get out and get some exercise in. And, and it's just, I didn't think that that was possible, but it very, very much is. It just, it takes time and you have to kind of get over that initial, um, curve. Now bodies adapt quickly and it can happen quicker than you think, but it is going to take probably a couple of few weeks before that becomes even really on the table. It's just going to be a really sucky month to figure out running for the first time. And I think a couple little, um, I don't know, just easy to apply to this is don't run in the heat of the day that, I mean, if it's hot outside, do not run when it's the peak heat.

[44:52] That's horrible. Um, do it when it is most, um, you know, nice outside. If you're running in, I mean, I guess if you're running inside, then you can kind of decide where it is and what, but you know, pick a time that you feel most energized, um, for a workout. And then also run walking is a great way to get started into something. Oh, absolutely. So I think there's a lot of great, um, ways you can do that. I know when your parents started running, they would literally do, um, from like light post or, um, yeah, like a light post. So they would run like two light posts and walk one and then they would build on from there. Um, so there's just a lot of different ways you can, um, get started into this, and then you just slowly build. And no, it's not, it takes time. Be kind to yourself because it is hard. Yeah. Um, but once you do, like you said, get that lower gear, uh, it really is a, a fun, enjoyable experience for, for the most part. Yep. All right, that checks the box. Uh, thank you, chat, for the question last week. Sorry we missed it. We didn't have the ability to see questions last time. So the, the, the Sydney video that still doesn't exist and likely will not exist. Well, we'll see how the week goes. Yeah, we'll see. Got a lot of things on the plate. We would have got it done this past weekend, I think, had we not completely redone our bedroom. It was, it was a worthwhile sacrifice. Yeah, for sure. But the, the main reason why is, which has been kind of a theme with how some of the things with Bravely have happened, is if there's some part of my digital life that I am using another service for, and there's things about it I don't like, I've really had an enjoyable time of building my own thing of that.

[46:40] And so I started the project to build out Vai, which is our video editing app, and gave up because it was tough. And I had other ways that we were going to do some of our video things that was going to be a much quicker outcome. But then when we got into doing the Sydney video, I'm like, I just, I want to give this another go and see if we can edit it in our own thing and see how far away maybe we actually are. And so we dove into building that and being able to build that in a way that is how I would want it to work, especially with, you know, we have a small team, and so being able to pass videos back and forth between people, and and the way that I think that that can work, and in leveraging storage that isn't a million thousand trillion dollars and using stuff we already have, like with Google Drive and things like that, but still figuring out how to get that to be able to edit those files locally and things. So that's the the route that we've gone down, is get that built out. It's actually to a point now where we've edited parts of it and it feels good enough probably to go ahead and continue at this point. So that's an exciting, encouraging thing, but that that took longer than expected.

[48:03] Yeah, and and here we are. But yeah, it'll be fun. It'll be fun. And I think it's interesting to, it's always really interesting when you're building out your own, um, app for something, uh, to realize just how many pieces there are that goes into a video editing, um. Oh yeah, there's a lot to program. You're like, wow, I, it just, you really do appreciate, um, the other ones for all the work that they've done in building it out, um, just because there's a, there's just a lot that goes into it that you don't realize you use until it's not available there. Yeah, well, and and you know, we have the benefit of having AI do a lot of the leg work, but like, you can't, spoiler, you can't just go to, you know, Codex or Clod Code and be like, hey, I want to you to make me a video editing app, and then you just like wait a while and then poof, here's your app. Um, it's not how it works. Uh, you have to do a, a, you have to know what you're, what you're looking for. And we have a whole infrastructure that we've built out and, uh, and through a lot of trial and tribulation, uh, gotten things, uh, for us to have the same similar platform for all our apps, which makes the development process a little bit quicker. Um, but yeah, I mean, you save the time of having to hand code a lot these days, that's the state of 2026, but man, it is a lot of things that you have to go in and define and, and get set up in such a way that you really make it granular. Yeah, like, I mean, there's, you, you get us, it is, it is wonderful being able to skip the actual, like, handwriting code thing. Like, I, as a person who did that for a very, very long time, I don't miss it. Yeah. Um, but the work is still a huge, huge amount of making sure everything is well planned and thought through, and you have the, you're dictating what the infrastructure is, not just letting the AI robots just

[50:03] decide exactly how they think it's going to be, because they come up with all kinds of crazy ideas. Yeah. So Vai really fast, because I know we're about to our time limit, but Vai is right now just an internal tool we're using, but do you feel like this is something that could eventually be out to people that might be interested, and and what kind of sets Vai apart from other video editor apps, at least what was your, what is your vision for that? Yeah, the, the thing that I think is most unique about Vai is how I have the intersection between letting AI do some of the legwork of getting, like, the clips in and, like, maybe an initial pass, but be in an editor that actually is solid, that you can then go in and do your own thing. And it is something that is developed for the current way that technology works, whereas a lot of things that I was using as trying to bolt on some AI features. So it's, it's, it's native to that and how it works, and honestly every, every little button click in the app is also something that could be driven by agent, if that's, if that's your jam. But then also, because I do think that all this stuff to be quality needs to be, uh, human touch, uh, like, it's, it, it requires people to actually make a cool creative thing, and I want to be able to pick that up and then have you look at that and make some edits, or me look at that, or, um, our team, you know, make edits here or there, and have that be a flawless experience too. So being able to pass between each other, and even be able to see, like, like if we're working on something collaboratively, like, literally see your mouse clicking on things and stuff, that how we have it set up now, and and also be able to hand off pieces of that to an agent and and be able to see all that live as well. And and so that, that's kind of the vision, but it, and it's pretty, it's gotten to a pretty good spot, but it, you know, it, it'll, it'll continue to evolve. If you're interested, you can

[52:05] definitely email us, um, yeah, you know, Jeff at bravely.dev, or you, I think it's on the website as well. Um, you can go check out things and see what all we got going on, but we do have to go because I have to leave for a flight, we have to get the kids out the door. And so about 20 minutes, it's really going to be, uh, yep. 20 minutes, uh, to turn into a completely ready Jeff ready for the airport. Um, if you have anything for the podcast, you can email us at Build Horizons.com. If you have questions or just want to say anything, say hi, uh, appreciate everybody on the chat. Good to see y'all. Uh, you can follow us on socials. And with that, Katy, I'm going to turn it over to you to sign us off. Uh, thank you for building us with us and we are cheering you on flawless.