011 - Self Improvement When You're Drained, Keeping Promises to Yourself, Career Moves

[0:00] Welcome to Build Horizons, a show about picking the life that you want to lead and how to make it happen. Today, we're going to talk about phones, post-marathon burnout, commitment, exhaustion, and more. I say that out loud. It sounds kind of like a bummer at the end. But yeah, with that, I'm going to start the intro.

[0:55] I am Jeff. This is Katy. subscribe below and we'll just hop right into it so katy yet last night um at the time of recording this anyways uh we hung out and and watched some of the uh apple news that had come out uh earlier on in the day and i'm just curious because i haven't actually asked you because we they announced the the iphone duo and fold phones have been out for a while but um the the apple people are in on the game now. I'm curious, what are, what's your take on foldable phones? Do you feel like that's going to stick around? Is that for you? What's your thoughts? Um, I don't know if it's for me at first, it seems, um, really big. I know they said that it's foldable within your pocket, but I don't really keep phones in my pocket. It's mostly in my purses and my purses are usually small um but i i don't know i think i honestly think if apple did a good job which i'm sure they did um it could definitely get traction you might want to hit auto ah thank you i should probably just hit auto there we go i'm just so enthralled by everything that you have to say about this oh how sweet about it oh my goodness um but i don't know it'll be interesting um i think

[2:11] what the impacts are going to be are all the so for new listeners and new viewers we actually have tiktok live going which is kind of fun yeah um and we have started a development company app development company so also like what those impacts will be um will be interesting because based off what they showed on the preview of it is it's very specific to how apps function on it and just the different ways you can use the phone um so it'll be interesting to see how all that works but yeah i think honestly i think it'll probably be pretty successful because i think people like big phones they like to have it i don't know yeah bigger the better sometimes and also i thought that i don't it didn't sound like it was going to be right away but they were going to have like an apple apple pen um or pencil what do they call it is it the apple it's the apple pencil pencil um that it'll be integrated to it which is kind of fun well it'll work on the screen i was like there was like a part of me that was just like please let there let it be a stylus like the old, uh, like, like you

[3:28] used to use that all the time. Yeah. Um, but no, it's, it's just an external thing. I do think it'll magnetize to the side, but I mean, yeah. And maybe it's not as convenient cause it's not just poked. Like you just poke it and it comes right out. Like it's part of the phone. So, I mean, I, I like right now I have an Apple pencil in my backpack that I have at all times. Uh, and I probably use it once a year. I mean, it, it's just there's a difference between just having it available versus um having to like go grab the thing do you use it for actually writing things or just more like doodling on no taking on my ipad like like this because one thing that we've never really talked about is you are and i take it took me a long time which we're totally getting off topic here that's okay but um you doodle when you're listening or if you're in a meeting or listening to something you're a doodler and i remember when we first met you would doodle on styrofoam cups I still do that yeah and I didn't understand I'm like are you even listening or paying attention but yeah that's what you do when you're listening so I'm kind of surprised you don't use your apple pencil more for doodling no I mean it it's honestly one of the favorite things that I had about like

[4:44] when I would use the the Samsung is is doodling in different colors and just random designs that I would draw um i mean yeah i still do that today like we have a meeting room uh at the day job that i will like take a paper towel and like use a expo marker and do the same thing and oh my gosh i'm sure people think i'm crazy and they're probably not wrong but so it goes um what about your thoughts on the duo what are you thinking oh yeah no it is really the thing i wanted to talk about is what you mentioned is there's a it's it's very interesting watching the first iphone release since starting an app company um or starting a development company because you know iphone is a big source of where people find and use our stuff and so to have a new form factor and a new set of things to consider um it's just really interesting uh to watch it i think i i'm like torn on whether or not I feel like it will catch on. I think that the technology has come a long way. It was clearly not the first iteration that they've done internally. I mean, they've been working on this probably since, you know, the first, I mean, I think it was the

[6:00] Samsung ones that really were the first main flagship phones that did foldable. And so this is just the first one that they've allowed to the public. We had a pretty good idea that this was going to be the case when they had the air come out last year um so like i think the the technology is really interesting it's getting extremely thin um a lot of creativity with jamming a bunch of things and the camera bump uh and so that they can be that thin for the main part of it i i don't know it it is oh we have things happening i don't even know what's happening on our i don't know something something happened we're learning we're learning this tiktok live so far away i can't reach you tiktok phone um but yeah i don't know it'll it'll be interesting to see how that plays over time and um yeah i i i think now that apple's in the game i think that we will see foldable continue to change i mean they they went off the beaten path with the with the dimensions and i i don't know we'll we'll see what wins out i mean either either this will be what is more common uh with the more passport size phone um that flips out into a much bigger phone or we will see um apple consolidate up into a phone

[7:19] that is traditional form factor split in half which is more traditional foldable i don't know we'll see time will tell we'll see how this goes Now the real question is, are you going to get one? Next topic. Yeah, thought so. I've been caught live. Okay, so we finished a marathon. We talked about it a lot last week. And in fact, we spent a lot of time really going through things and talking about it. So we don't need to talk about the race itself necessarily. And we also finished a, uh, a marathon eight weeks or so before that. So our summer in the heat has been training for marathon, um, a lot and both races were pretty rough, uh, in the scale of races that we've done. Um, not, not neither of them went as expected, uh, except for yours in Sydney was better than, uh, yeah, Sydney was, was rocking for me. but that's okay we'll have another rockin marathon yep um but i think right now uh especially having gone through the summer and it's still

[8:34] hot uh outside here the midwest uh with i mean a little bit of a break but really literally and if you look if you're a weather guru we've broken every record with this heat wave that's just been genuinely on top of us yeah it's like actually pretty interesting how this has been like, it's been pretty big news here, but we've shattered every record of nineties and a hundred degrees with it. It's just insane. And I know we talk about it a lot, but like, it's genuinely been crazy this year. But anyways, uh, the thing I want to talk about with you is where are you at with the, I mean, it's very common to be pretty burned out, uh, with a, with running in general after a marathon, but especially after really hard elongated training block uh and two back-to-back marathons eight weeks apart um where are you at and what are you thinking for the next you know six months of doing fitness stuff yeah so i think for me having two marathons back-to-back like we did was maybe a little much um and i don't know if that's because of the heat of the summer or if it was just a lot of running and and i love running i mean i enjoy it it's something

[9:51] i you know i've done a long time um but when you're in a training block that long i do feel like it can be tough to keep the motivation going or the discipline going um just because when you're stacking on those miles especially on your saturday or sunday or your weekend runs you're just basically your long run for the week you're just drained the rest of the day and you just don't have that much to give um and so I I don't like that part um and if there's a secret to how to pass like get past that then please give me all your secrets I do try to feel well and I do try to rest up well but still have just a massive hit I do feel like it hits me a little bit more than it hits you after it depends I guess but um as far as what I'm doing now for fitness I mean you know I've really kind of shifted more to HIIT cardio going doing some group exercise classes which has been really fun and then also really upping weights but also doing just more shorter runs three four mile runs which is just a sweet spot especially when you've trained for a marathon three to four miles is a joy but I've really been

[11:09] enjoying doing more HIIT cardio type of exercises lots of jumping um which they've found that and i don't know what the studies would be but or what they are but he's about to drop some super no no no just that they've found that if you if you do have like the impact of jumping and of course this can vary from person to person but it can really help like i think your bone density don't quote me on that i'd have to go look it up but um it's been fun to just do something a little bit different and the classes i'm doing are also really fun classes in my opinion um and i like i like group exercise even though you despise group exercise i can't even imagine i've been trying to convince you to come i'm gonna get you i will say i meant to tell you this last night but i went and did a body design class at the ymca which i don't know if that's this if all ymca is across everywhere call it that um but it's a pretty tough class it was like 50 50 men and women in that class i think there were like five guys and maybe seven girls good for them you know and i'm just saying you could come do it and it would be fine you wouldn't i can do all kinds of things but i can do all kinds of things but what about for you how how are things going for you uh i

[12:27] mean it it was a rough marathon for me um and i i stubbornly went out and ran in 100 degree heat like the wednesday or tuesday something like that after we got back. Um, so stupid, which was pretty dumb. Oh my gosh. Six and a half miles. It was like 103. Yeah. And I, I think that might've been harder than the marathon itself. Uh, that was pretty stupid. The, the thing where I'm at right now is I have a lot of, we just didn't get the time in that I would have liked. And a lot of that was, uh, because it was hot, but a lot of that was also just a shifting priority of, um, you know, doing things for the business and getting things off the ground and, um, not wanting to sacrifice too much time with that. I mean, it's a balance and it's a bunch of trade-offs really. And I do think that I can be a little bit more intentional in cutting other things, not cutting from business and not cutting from fitness. And so I'm going to try to, you know, cut from scrolling phone or, you know, things like that and, and spend a little bit more time on the bike, I think, um, uh, at least while it's not freezing cold out. So I have, you know, a little bit of a runway to, to get some time on the bike, uh, keep up the running obviously. Um, and then we're looking at

[13:44] doing a marathon toward the end of next year, depending on drawings and luck on that and real life schedules and costs and things, but we'll, we'll see. But so have a, have a marathon on the calendar, a couple of marathons, uh, circled on the calendar as potentials for next year. We'll have to see how it all plays out. I'm enjoying not having to train for a marathon, but yeah, it is, it is kind of nice. And that's kind of what I wanted to say is like, it's just, it's okay. Like that's gonna, um, even though I do have big race goals that I would like to achieve in my lifetime, it's also okay to have ups and down seasons. And, um, as long as you're moving in the right direction still, uh, or at least still in the game, I think there's nothing wrong with after a really hard rough go of it to get back to doing the things that are actually enjoyable around fitness and i think we've both kind of found our different paths not group fitness for everyone and not riding bikes for either one you're really trying to get me to ride the bike though i am you're pushing me to do i think i think it's a hundred times more likely that you ride the bike than i go to a group fitness class 100 but it hasn't happened yet it hasn't i just feel really awkward on a bike. I don't know why. Yeah. I mean, I know how to

[15:01] ride a bike. It's just, I don't know how to ride it fast. We went like, I think we went maybe once or twice together and you were so much faster than I could keep up with. And it felt a little insecure about my bike riding. Yeah. I mean, you're not the speediest rider I've ever met. I'm not. Do you want to read our first questions, Katy? Sure. So question number one comes from user C Kaleidoscope 32 290. The question is, a survey found 34% of people have given up on self-improvement entirely because of work. How do you keep it going when you're drained? And then it goes in a little more of the survey. So it was a survey of 2,000 working adults and then had dropped self-improvement altogether, not for lack of wanting to, but for lack of energy after work. And then in the same survey, 60% said their free time goes to recovering from work rather than actually living. And then the question is, for people who've stayed consistent through a demanding job, what actually works? Yeah. So, I mean, and even beyond just a demanding job, just like commitments with time, I mean, with kids, that eats up a lot of available time. Right. So, I mean, I do

[16:19] think that you are definitely a good person to give some advice on this um i'll tell you what my thoughts are the the thing that you can really focus on if you feel very very drained is what uh i guess maybe two different parts one is what high leverage activities can you make small improvements on that have outsized impacts usually that i mean i would say vast majority of people um the number one thing that you can do with that is get to bed way way earlier um because you almost certainly are not getting enough sleep and i you know i i have you know a very demanding job and there is a big difference of when i come home uh when i've slept enough versus when i haven't last night for example, um, or, or the night before I did not get enough sleep. And so when I came home from work, I literally took a nap. Like it was, it was rough. And we have another Tik TOK thing that popped up. I'll figure out what these Tik TOK things are. Thank you. Or something for y'all who are doing things. Um, so get to bed earlier. That would be my number one thing that I would say. Um, the, um, number two thing is think about how

[17:36] you can rearrange your life so that the things that you want to improve happen before you're completely dead from work. Um, so, uh, you know, I, I personally, if I waited till after work as my only time that I ever did fitness, I would probably never do fitness. In fact, that was the truth for a very long time. I hated waking up early. And so I didn't want to have to do that. And so then I would tell myself, I'll just try to do that after work and then it would never happen. So I, I think if you want to, you know, move your body more, um, do something. I think being able to go to bed early, like I said, in the first one so that you can wake up early and get that knocked out in the morning makes it so that then you go to work and you're going to make it through your day. I mean, you'll survive. And then, um, and then you can have the evening to be a little bit more relaxed and feel good about it. Like it's not, not a bad thing to enjoy relaxing after, uh, after your day. Um, it, what really sucks though, is if you feel like, Hey, I have this thing I want to do better at, but I feel too exhausted to do it and I can't get around to it. And then I just feel like I'm in the endless loop. Uh, I'm curious what your thoughts are as someone who I feel like has, despite, you know, varying

[18:53] degrees of busy and not over the, since I've known you, um, you've always been pretty solid on finding time for yourself to, you know, do fitness or other things that you've wanted to spend time on. Or like, if you've decided that you've wanted to read more, you find times to read more. You're pretty good at that. What, what, what do you find that helps prioritize those things? Well, one other thing I wanted to touch on with what you said is sleep. Um, obviously everyone's in different seasons of life as to what they can do for sleep. You know, when we have little babies, it's just not a possible thing to get solid sleep. Um, but what I found too is, and like you said, I've kind of had varying degrees of when I've been more active compared to less is when I have been more active, especially in the morning, I do sleep better at night and I fall to sleep faster. Um, so I think that's also helpful to understand is if you can find that time to move your body, whatever it looks like, you can usually get better sleep. Oh yeah. Yeah. So I know that's not exactly, I don't know, talking with what it works for me, but I just wanted to mention that because I think that that is a really

[20:08] valuable thing that people could do. And even if it's just going for a walk, walking your dog, I think any way you can move your body, you just get so much better sleep. But for me, I think what I have found works is finding the time of the day where I can give my most to something, which for me is personally in the mornings. If I have a morning workout or if I have a, I don't know, something I'm wanting to do, if I work out in the morning I can give it more of me because I'm fresh I'm ready to go um so I think finding whatever time that is for you if that's over lunch hour if you did want to have that extra sleep in the morning just find that time where you can give your all to something I think that's really important um and I'm definitely not a workout at evening in the evenings because I do I just get tired from my day I don't have nearly as a demanding job as you do but um still I you know I'm in calls and I'm getting work done I'm doing things with the kids and um but one thing I've

[21:24] found that has been kind of helpful and again I know you're not a group exercise person and I know this isn't for everybody but having um like last night I went and did this body design class at the YMCA I had like a commitment with a friend to go do it and I found it so much easier to go do it um so maybe even if that if you don't have a friend that you're doing the class with um or you know committing yourself to something um I don't know yeah friend don't take a friend but commit yourself to that I think it actually is really helpful and I always and again I love group exercise I think it's fun I think it's encouraging I actually think you would like it more than you realize, but that's okay. Um, but I think something like that could also help try to keep that drive going. Yeah. I think that finding X, like if it's not a natural time for you to do a thing, finding an external reason why it's more likely to happen, whether that's like just fun or, um, if you have somebody who you want to do the thing with and you can have that commitment. I mean, yeah, I think that that is an excellent way to make sure that something gets done. Yeah. And I'll say I'm not giving, so like doing that class last

[22:40] night, I definitely wasn't able to give my output as much as what I would in the morning, but I still went and did the thing. Um, and I think that that's important to it. Like give yourself some kindness on that too, which is going and doing the thing is really great. Like you don't have, I don't know if you you get what I'm saying, but yeah. And, and I, one thing I wanted to like highlight that you mentioned is I think it is, uh, a really key part of this is a lot of these things are very virtuous cycles. Uh, so like the, the thing you mentioned about working out helps you sleep more and, and the way you work out can often be that you go to bed early. And so once you start that snowball downhill, these things do get easier. Like it, in addition to like just the natural things of this is the thing that i do so i'm going to do the thing that i do that happens like as you build a habit the other part of it is like there's actual like physiological things that are happening that make this easier and just more natural for you to do once you get started and and just to try to keep that in mind like as you get started is like it is going to be harder because you are going down the path that you're going down because of the situation and decisions that you find yourself in, like, or the decisions that you're making. And so if you, if you switch that,

[23:57] it is, it's going to feel harder at first, but just in the same way that the way that you were living before felt very normal, um, the new things will eventually feel really normal too. It's just going to take time to get there. So you have to have just the patience to, to make it through some of those initial things and you'll, you'll get there over time. Um, oh, and, and then I guess one, one tiny last thing, um, that I wanted to mention is, is change some inputs. Like if there is something that you, uh, that you want to spend time doing, finding some way to, you know, whether that's reading or whether that's people you watch on YouTube, uh, finding people that are doing that thing and surrounding yourself or like you mentioned through group like through group exercise or having a friend to do something with like having other people that influence you toward doing your thing will also help it be a little bit more natural that was the thing i know yeah and i even think with running because it can be a pretty individualized thing um i do feel like there's like this running boom right now is finding a running group i know most places have some sort of running group and i think that that can be can really build community um get you excited about it but that's also another

[25:13] thing that you know you could do yep all right um our second question do you want to do this one you want me to read it i can do it okay go ahead um so it comes from user babby6632 and the question is how do i keep the promise i made to myself is there any way to keep the promise i made to myself without constantly starting over um they say i've been trying to change this since february and i keep failing after one bad day i delete everything and i start completely over and then i do it again and again how can i finally push myself to actually stick to this goal and make it work all right so uh we've talked about this uh oh what is i don't know what it says i don't know do you want to do you want to go look at it? We'll just let it ride. Okay. TikTok is being silly. Um, so the TikTok, you're such a weird thing. Um, so the first thing is, I think that when you're wanting to make a change like this, um, like if there's a thing that you're committing to yourself and you want to follow through, um, the thing is most big life

[26:31] changes are not going to be, um, some binary thing of like I did this or I didn't do it. I mean, it feels like that. Like if you say, I want to run a marathon, so I need to run every day and then you miss a day. And then it's like, um, God, why, why even bother or something like that? Maybe that's a bad example, but, um, the, it has to be framed correctly. What you are doing is going to be a summation of every, every day that you show up to do the thing. Uh, it's not like you're going to arrive and having completed the thing. Like if you want to tell yourself, like, I want to change this part of my personality. Like, I don't want to be like this. I don't want to do this thing. Um, you might not do it for a day, but that's not the goal. The goal is to not do it for a lifetime. Like if it's a bad habit or something that you have. And so it's not going to be a thing where you, you complete it. Like you, you might have mistakes along the way. It's about the trajectory that you're going down. Um, and, and so, so the first thing I would say is don't be overly focused on trying to get to

[27:48] some perfect thing that you're heading toward. Like it's just not like, unless your goal is to get a tattoo, like there's not like a, you're not going to get it completed. Like you're, you're never going to, um, to be finished with a lot of the big change type work that we're probably talking about and didn't get too much into the context of the actual question, but, um, it is about not doing certain things anymore. Um, and, and so first off, yeah, it needs to be framed correctly. Um, so it's focusing on what you can do in your day-to-day to work toward that direction. Um, and then I would say not boiling the ocean. Like don't, don't worry about trying to do it for 30 days in a row. Uh, figure out what can I do to make it easier to do it today and tomorrow. Uh, really, if you, if you get good at making it easy to do today and tomorrow, today and tomorrow become 30 days. So, you know, if that is running to continue that example, since that's what we've been talking about, if that is running, then, uh, set out your running clothes the night before so that you have it be that much easier when you wake up in the morning to like, okay, I just need to get

[29:05] my clothes on. And then the snowball roll starts going downhill. Uh, or if, if, you know, like, okay, I've tried that doesn't work. I need to have somebody that I commit this with, um, find somebody to do it with, and then, uh, make sure you text each other the night before and just checking in like hey you good uh all right see you see you tomorrow or whatever it is like do do things to make it more likely um that you will do it in the current day um or do it in in tomorrow so that you can start getting things going start getting repetitions yeah um so just to give a little bit more context of this question is they said that they're a pretty energetic um person and you know an extrovert and but they're more like that around their friends and they basically want to get to the point where they talk to strangers more um and have that confidence sorry we're really trying to get this tiktok thing to work. Um, and you know, and I think like what you said is it's baby steps. If it's saying hi to somebody, how are you today? I think the more you do, the more you try something, the more you

[30:20] experiment with that, what that looks like for each person you get, it gets more comfortable, um, talking with strangers and things like that. Um, but honestly, I feel like this is a great one for you too because you were so shy in high school in middle school and now you've really you had to grow out of that with your career choice so for this specific question how do you have any advice on how to get it easier I mean you still don't love to talk to strangers it's not something that you're excited to do but how have you how have what tools have you used to get better about the, on this specific thing? Well, I mean, to go into the, you know, getting out of your shell type stuff, um, is, is just to know that for one or coming to the realization over time, like people don't care about, I don't mean this in a bad way, but people don't care about you. Like they, they don't care about you the way that you care about you. Uh, they're not going to think about you the way that you think about you uh if you say some dumb thing they're not

[31:36] going to be staying up at night wondering you know how on earth are they so stupid that they said that we all could relate to that when we've said the thing and you like take a step back you're like why did i say it that way and it just eats at you all day or longer yeah like i can't even tell you how many times that's happened to me yeah oh my gosh i bet there's some really funny stories of this happening so if you have any good funny stories please share them that would be awesome um so so knowing those things just it helps lower the stakes because honestly even things that feel really really big uh they're in the grand scheme of things it all works out almost always like it isn't a big deal and it is you're you're gonna grow a thousand times more if you try something and fail than if you decide to not try something at all and avoid the whole experience and avoid that failure. And, and so if you frame failure as a good thing, uh, as something to learn along the path, I mean, that's, that's another part of this is, um, is, is get something, try it, like get, get down the path and learn things, learn what you suck at making

[32:51] commitments to yourself so that you can figure out how to do that better. Uh, if you say that, you know, I'm just not the type of person who can fill in the blank. Um, you'll be right. Uh, because you're not going to figure out how to make the changes in your life and figure out how to make that. And it might take years to figure it out, but if you try, uh, you're going to learn how to make it along the path. Yeah. Yeah, no, that's really good. One thing that you said though, that I kind of wanted to push back on you is, um, starting and stopping something. because i do feel like when you gave up alcohol it was pretty abrupt um do you want to talk about that change in your life and how you framed that in a way um like what do you like what specifically do you mean with that well i think for if somebody wanted to do something similar um how what advice would you give them if there was a hard stop on something that they wanted to do? Uh, this isn't really so much related to the question, just more. I wanted to get your opinion on, I mean, the, like, if you're truly trying to stop a, uh, a bad habit, um, I think surrounding

[34:08] yourself with just as much, um, information or just thinking about that, the topic and why, and and helping make that identity shift is super important i i think we we go down the path of you know this is um you know my identity and so this is the things that i'm going to do and not really realizing that you kind of made all that stuff up anyways and it's all changeable and if you are willing to spend the time actually thinking about and you know learning from other people who have done similar things or or learning things about whatever topic that may be uh i think it makes it a lot easier for the thing to stay in focus for what it actually is as opposed to what you've made it be i don't know if no that makes really good and i think this self-identity thing is something you know we could talk on a little bit more is how we as humans lean so much into our self-identity good and bad but how malleable that actually can be um that just because

[35:24] you have the self-identity and something doesn't mean you necessarily i mean there are some things that obviously you do you are that's just who you are as a person um but there is a lot of changes that can happen. Um, that you're not defined by all of those things. Yeah. I think a fun way to think about it. That's like a little bit of a less serious version that we've both gone through is our entire adult life. We had lived in the same small town, um, the entire time. So like from, uh, you know, late teenage getting married years, uh, all the way through up until a year and a half ago, uh, when we moved to the large metropolis of Wichita, Kansas. Um, but yeah, it was a town of like just a little less than a thousand people. And, um, so you kind of know everybody, everybody knows you and definitely small town feels and no offense to anybody that lives in small town. I'm sure there's a couple of, uh, the folks that are, that'll find their way onto this, uh, this podcast at one point or another, but, um, it, when we decided to make the move, cause we both kind of had, uh, I mean, we both were runners And, um, we wanted to get, you know, out

[36:39] into the city to be able to have more access to more than just the same square mile of, uh, pavement that the other town was. And it honestly just kind of be closer to things. Like we, we just want to do stuff and there's, you know, at, in that town, there's, uh, uh, there was a dollar general that got built like toward the end there. And that was super exciting. That was a life change and the gas station. And, um, that's about it. And so to, to get out of that into a place where, you know, if I want to go to the hardware store, there's like three of them within six minutes. Like, I love that. That's super nice. Um, or, you know, you can, you can door dash things here and stuff like that. The, uh, but you, you really inflate how much like, well, if I move, like, you know, I have so, I know so many people here and that's going to be so sad and it's going to be a big change. And Um, and then in reality, when you actually make that shift, it's like, Oh, well, all those things that I was worried about, I don't even think about like, it's so like, I don't, I, my identity has shifted and I just, I, I'm not, it's not like I'm sad or I'm missing out on any of it. Like I'm just a different person. Like we're

[37:57] different people now who get to enjoy the things that we thought we would. Um, and when your identity shifts and you find that new thing that you find valuable, you don't miss the old thing, which is you don't realize that when it's your identity at the same time. And to use the alcohol example, like I thought that that was how, like when I was at work conferences or things like that, that, you know, I could get to know people because we would talk about whatever bourbon or whatever thing. And, and like, I found that as a really easy thing to talk to people about. And so when I stopped drinking, I would had a really big worry about like how much I would miss that and the ability to do that sort of thing. And, um, and how much of my own self, like, you know, my day to day that I would miss that. And in reality is once you make that shift and you, you find other things you care about, it turns out I care about those things as much as I used to care about alcohol. And so therefore I would rather talk to somebody about running or fitness or Sydney's the trip that we just did or traveling or, or whatever, um, or starting a business and, and all that jazz. Um, and so, I mean, I think if you wrote it all out on paper of what it was

[39:12] before and what it would be after, um, anybody in their right mind would be like, oh my gosh, your life is so much better now. And it is. It's objectively true. I mean, from happiness to health, it's all a ton better now. But in the moment, you think you're going to mourn the loss of this identity that I've built for myself. And that's what holds you back from all those good things. And so it held me back for a really long time because I felt like there would be no way I could enjoy a football game if I wasn't drinking silly things like that. Turns out, uh, you'll find the things that you enjoy and the new identity. And those will be the things that you care about and spend time with and spend time doing. And, and you won't miss the stuff that no longer appeals to you because that's not who you are anymore. And that's just how it is just in the same way that like before I didn't enjoy group exercise and now I don't enjoy group exercise that's never changed uh and but i i don't like sitting in bed like wondering like oh man if only i liked group exercise my life would be so much better it's just like i can't whatever go have your fun i would rather go ride the bike and listen to an audiobook it makes me so happy to do

[40:28] stuff like that um and and so i'll i'll do that and that's okay and i don't feel like sad that i missed out on group exercise um but you just don't know what you're missing i just i don't know what i'm missing i don't know what i was gonna say but anyways the does that uh that track a resonator yeah no yeah i think that that totally makes sense um so this next question i am definitely not going to have a lot of feedback on this one but i am happy to read it and let you put your feedback out into the world um so this comes yeah we've moved to a quick career question yeah yes um just to wrap up here a little bit um so this is from united koala 6921 shout out to koalas i miss koalas they're so cute um and it's the question is is it possible to pivot software engineering after starting in it and they are a recent grad um yep with a bachelor's in what's cs i bet you can figure it out what's computer oh wow computer science yeah look at me i'm so smart it's the degree okay but you know what i was thinking was customer service and i'm like that cannot be right would be a wild

[41:43] degree i'm sure it exists yeah i'm sure it does um so they recently accepted a job offer in healthcare it as a tech analysis and their analyst all right you know it's early and we're pushing time here but we're going to get through this. So they said while they're excited to have a tech-related job in the market, they really want to move towards software engineering role for their long-term career. They say people say the best time to move around in your career is at the beginning. And some say to never stop applying if you're not satisfied and just to leave when you get a better offer, but then other people say to stay at least a year. Um, so they're just wondering how do they navigate that? Cause they want to make sure not to hurt their reputation as they're starting their career fresh out of college. Yeah. And I mean, obviously, you know, my background is, you know, technology and development things and such. So I do feel like, yes, this is definitely a Jeff question, but I do think, I do think from like a job switching standpoint, you probably have some better perspective on it than i do i have a very biased perspective as a person who um since i was 22 or whatever i've worked at the same place and i'm no longer 22 um a little

[43:00] older than that these days the uh the thing with that i would say is first off it's just going to be trade-offs for starters so i i think just laying out the truths about the situation is sometimes helpful to figure out like which path. And I don't think that there's a, a right or wrong answer here necessarily. I think that it's just a matter of figuring out which of the things make more sense for what you want to achieve. Um, I would say while you, you know, you mentioned in this person, they, they've accepted the job. So they're, they're in this it analyst or analysis, whatever you said, role analyst i'm sorry healthcare it yeah they're in healthcare it which so i assume that that means more like uh like helping fix stations that are wrong doing updates stuff like that yeah um like tech services type things and and so that's not that's not going down the software engineering route uh it is a technology job and to their point that they made earlier in the post is like it is you know it is nice to have a job and to not be searching and so i i think that they're not wrong to you know have appreciation

[44:17] for what they're in um but back to the trade-offs if you are going to continue to look for jobs after you've accepted this one you will not be um as happy and you will not be as engaged in your current role um comparison is the thief of joy and you're just opening yourself up to have so many other options to look at. And that will take away from the happiness that you could have in your current role. Um, that also, uh, will take focus off of, you know, emotionally investing in what you're currently doing. Cause your goal is not to stay there at that point. Like you're, you've decided that this is not what I want to do. And that does change things. That is a mental shift. Um, you won't be as good, you won't be as productive and you won't be as happy in your current role. Um, so there's, there's the downside on that. Um, the upside though is, and I think is you need to decide how much of an upside is it? Um, you know, if you want to go down a software engineer route, the sooner you start that, the sooner you start to figure those things out. And the sooner you start down that road, the, you know, the

[45:33] more likely it is that you will find success in that role. But that said, it is definitely not a, a bad thing to not get rolling on that until you have worked other places for a while. I mean, if you're a brand new grad, nobody is going to look at like, Oh, well you went and worked in it for a couple of years, uh, in the healthcare field. So I don't want to, I don't care about their computer science background. And I don't, I don't think they're a good fit for, um, this, uh, the software engineering role that I would say most people aren't going to think of that as a downside. Uh, I would say most people will think of that as more of a positive. Now, if you worked in, you know, that it analysts or, you know, that more help desk type role for a decade, then that's going to change things. I mean, the world changes pretty rapidly. And so there is kind of a half-life on, um, how, how, how good some of that background, uh, is going to look on a, on a resume or, or when you're talking about it. And, um, but I, I would say it really comes down to those two things of, do I, am, am, am I going is it possible for me to be happy in this current role um and do i want to

[46:51] give up uh not being as happy and as you know fulfilled and giving my all in this to try to find a different path um one thing i i did want to like also uh toss on there if you ended up switching uh and you had like kind of this short term thing and then you switched into another role and you don't want to be, uh, you know, you don't want that to look negative, like on a resume, you're like, ah, I was only here for six months or something like that. Um, I think it's really easy to explain and most people won't care. So I, that part of it, I wouldn't worry about having be a con. I mean, uh, obviously if you switch jobs every six months, uh, that is going to be eventually a very big red flag. But if you had a switch and then you worked at a place for five years and then you went somewhere else, I don't think that that's going to be a negative whatsoever. I don't think anybody's going to even blink at that. It's, it's not uncommon to just get any job out of college and then figure out your path. Um, and then one last thing that I wanted to say, if there is any kind of more, uh, more down the software engineer, um, job at your current employer. So not the job

[48:07] that you got, obviously. But if there are other people who do similar things to something that you think is more in line with what you want to do, I would personally recommend as a person who went down this path, double down on learning everything you can at your current job and wait for the opportunity to do something that's more in line with that. You will be a billion times more valuable than someone off the street. If you are someone who has spent the time in your current role, being curious, learning things, learning things in other verticals, knowing how the business works, uh, asking good questions, being a, a good person to collaborate with, uh, across lines of business, those sorts of things end up sending you on a much different trajectory. Uh, and I think is also a really fulfilling way to go about things. Uh, and so maybe, maybe you can have your cake and eat it too, if that is an option as well. And I think for people that are willing to go above and beyond in their job. I think the lateral, um, flexibility that you have, like that lateral, um, ability to move is a lot higher than people perceive. Um, I, maybe this is going to feel a little controversial and a little

[49:22] judgy, but I think a lot of people, uh, feel like they're trapped in their current role. But I, I would say that that trap is, is a little bit of their own making. If they have the mindset of I'm going to do the bare minimum and I'm going to, you know, try to find ways to, I hate to even say like be lazy or to, you know, I'm just going to coast because I don't really care about this thing. I want to do something different. And they use that as a reason or an excuse to not apply themselves in their current role. I see that all the time. And I, there's nothing, I mean, if you're doing your job, there's nothing wrong with that, but it will be limiting to your ability to, uh, go and do other things. So if you can be the, the exception to that and, and go above and beyond and find other things outside of what your roles and responsibilities are, yes, that does require applying yourself for, you know, your full day, instead of trying to get your entire day done in four hours and kind of slack around and joke around and have fun the rest. Um, but you, you, like I, like I mentioned, you will have a different trajectory available to you if you do that sort of thing. So anyways, those are kind of my thoughts. Um, I mean, you've, you've changed jobs for various reasons

[50:38] over the years. Um, do you have anything that you would add or any other like perspectives to, to share on that? Well, um, I mean, I feel like with my job, it was a little bit of environment I didn't fit into the environment and I think if that's something that you're going through then I think that you should make a change um but that's not what this specific question's talking about but I have found um just with my changes in careers it's always worked out well for me um I think it took me moving from different jobs to actually really figure out what it is I wanted to do. And I have my background, my bachelor's is in healthcare administration. And now I'm doing more project management, consulting work, and like totally unrelated to my degree. But it did take time in different jobs, doing different roles to figure out what it is i enjoy doing and i think even still i'm still trying to figure that out a little bit because i did pause

[51:53] career to um have kids our babies and stay home for a few years with them and then honestly unexpectedly kind of got back into the workforce um and you just found yourself with a job one day by accident kind of yeah that's really kind of what happened And then, honestly, it's just kind of evolved from there into what I'm doing now. But, yeah, I think, you know, I didn't like the environment in some of the workplaces that I was at. So then I made a change because of that. But because of that change, I also found opportunity and career paths that were unexpected that I actually really genuinely enjoy. got to meet some really, really fun people through this process. So I don't know, I don't think that's really answering anything, but that's been my own experience with my career path. Um, but yeah, I think if, you know, do what's do what's best for you, sit, don't, and don't make a decision super rashly, like really put the thought into it, um, before making changes like this. Um, I think that that's also a really valuable thing is to, I find a lot of

[53:09] value in writing things down pros and cons and go through that exercise and, um, yeah, and just make sure that, you know, whatever you're doing, uh, makes sense for you. It is so funny. Uh, so often we really, really, uh, over-inflate the, like the impacts of decisions on our, or like just the, uh, certain variables and i i do think as cliche as it sounds writing out the situation and like making yourself think through how to how do i put this into words and then look being able to look at that after you've written it down is such a clarifying experience like because you know a lot like once you put it down on paper and you think about how to say it um you're not having to like try to think about this big scary thing in your head like you you've put it down and you can like kind of step back just a hair sometimes when you do that. And the, the perspective shift of looking at the pros and cons of a thing that you were really worried about oftentimes make it extremely clear the path that you should go down. Um, so anyways, to, to go back and actually address the question, I think that would be a really good exercise is just to write down the

[54:24] trade-offs and and then which things when you look back uh would you be um most appreciative or most regretful for and and then help future you appreciate your decisions now uh by making whatever the right call is for you and i think too just to add to that is do the pros and cons when you're fresh and do the pros and cons when you haven't had like a really hard emotional day at work, then I have a feeling your cons would just be so long. So make sure you're in a good head space when you're going through that exercise and maybe even do it with a partner and, you know, really talk through things or, you know, do a little bit of both, do it by yourself, maybe pull in your partner, you know, just sometimes it's nice to have that sounding board and to bounce things off of. I know we do that a lot together, but sometimes there was times that you do it by yourself and then you kind of come to me and yeah um but i don't know just one other thing i wanted to add to that and um i guess one last last thing is there's also more than one way up the mountain too yeah and just because they feel like opposing choices they could just be two paths that ultimately land with you kind of more or less in the same spot regardless and so

[55:42] that's the other thing too, is like these, uh, these decisions are not terminal. Like this is not going to be like, well, I'm going to be the butterfly that flaps its wings and it's going to cause a tsunami and somewhere like this is going to definitely shift the current state that you're in. Um, but you can find your path on either one of these choices almost assuredly. Um, and yes, one, almost certainly, like if you could magically see the two choices, there's one that you would probably be like, Oh yeah, that's the choice. Uh, but you don't get to know that and, and it's okay. You'll never know it. And so there's kind of an ignorance is bliss there. Um, you, you make, yes, it is the journey and you, you make the call. Um, and, and, and don't worry about it. Like it, you'll find that if it ends up being the wrong choice, there's other choices that will work out, um, that will come up after that, that you'll have to, you'll have to figure it out, but you'll be okay. Well, and even with my situation is I moved to a different company and that it was a startup and then that startup ended up not making it. And I had literally moved from a very stable growing company to go to the startup to try a new role. Funny, that's kind of what we found out. And did it work out?

[56:57] And yeah, in the moment, I definitely catastrophized it when excuse me, when we all basically found out, uh, it was, it was going down, ship was going down. Um, and you know, it, I actually met a lovely person working at this company that then opened up another job opportunity. Um, so yeah, it's, you know, it all ends up working out. You just have to just go down that journey and, you know, keep, keep at it. Don't give up. And, uh, yeah, I definitely I just I could feel that because I remember that moment when I told you what I had to call you and be like, so I'm not going to have a job in a couple of weeks. And we had just got a puppy and I was working from home and I was just spiraling. I'm like, what are we going to do with this puppy? And yeah, take it back. No, not our puppy. That was actually something that we did in Sydney. So we have two golden doodles and we would golden doodle spot. apparently australia has a lot of golden doodles too and it yeah they found out about them it would seem so much joy all right uh i think we've reached the end i mean unless you want to do like the 30 second no that's okay we can

[58:13] do that next time but yeah i mean that's kind of a we are really really pushing this you guys we have kids that have to be on a bus in 10 minutes and i still have lunches to make uh about eight minutes yeah so we're gonna we're gonna wrap here um so uh first off uh thank you so much for watching thank you tiktok friends uh for oh there's questions over there or at least comments can't read them hopefully maybe we need to figure that out a little bit like maybe i am gonna figure it out like we could actually have it up on uh one of these tvs yeah yeah you can keep an eye on things so uh we'll do some some live interaction stuff i think that would be really fun um but in addition to happening to be on this live stream and tick tock. Uh, you can also send us questions to, uh, us at build horizons.com. Uh, or if you just want to say hi, or you have topics you want us to talk about, uh, send us that way. You can also follow us on socials. Uh, someday we'll have a Cindy video. We're doing some things. I'll give you some more background on that when we have more time. Uh, but with that, Katy, send us out. Thanks for building with us and we are cheering you on. Oh, that's the intro.