007 - How to Build Discipline From Zero: Habits, ADHD, and Marathon Training

[0:00] one. Hello and welcome to Build Horizons, a show about picking the life that you would like to lead and how to make it happen. Today, we're going to talk about a number of things and mostly answering some questions about what are they going to be about, Katy? Figuring out how to form habits, how to get started on things, how to make changes, all the normal fun type of topics. But first, we have an intro video to play.

[1:05] is katy hit subscribe like the thing is saying uh and yeah we'll get rolling on this uh while i remember to do some production things over here today we're sponsored by waterloo and coca-cola yeah i wish just kidding uh all right katy uh what is our first question well i think we're gonna talk about what's coming up and like you know soon right sure what what's coming up well we're heading to sydney australia down under yeah yeah and we're very prepared for a marathon in sydney australia probably the least prepared for a marathon we've ever been there's no probably about it yeah it is assuredly the least amount of prepared that we've ever been going into a race i mean we'll be fine i do feel a little nervous about that um but i i am glad that i have three marathons under my belt that i even if it sucks i know what to expect um and but yeah it's just been a really hard training block just because of the heat it's in the midwest it is just it's been brutal i know we've talked about it a few times but

[2:21] this has been such a hard race to train for and i don't recommend august races september races yeah this weekend is supposed to be like our final like big hard effort and like yeah it just there's only so many minutes that you can be outside when it is you know the low is like 80 fahrenheit yeah and just infinite amount of humidity oh the humidity is horrible um yeah so what are you most excited about for sydney well i mean for one you've never traveled at least by, by a plane to like another continent, another place. Not like this. I mean, I've been to Mexico, but that doesn't really different. Um, and, and so like, I'm excited for you to have that experience. I think that's a fun thing to share together. Um, I mean, I'm a, I'm a big food person and I like pretty much anything, but I especially love seafood type stuff. And I hear Sydney has some ocean nearby. Uh, so that will be pretty exciting. I was actually googling um what type of foods people should try while they're in sydney and oysters was the big one oysters i mean that's what it said i mean i don't know i don't i don't mind so but that's probably not where i'm

[3:37] going to gravitate toward yeah so i we had written what are you excited about and what are you not excited about so i feel like i kind of have two things i'm excited for the food to try food but i'm also very nervous about the food because as much as I wish I was a seafood person I like in my soul want to love seafood I absolutely despise it I don't believe that you actually want no I don't I don't like it the texture the fishy taste it just like we're like it revulses me if that's the right word I think that's the right word for that like i literally cannot even swallow it and i'm a little nervous that um i'm gonna get there and it's basically gonna be all seafood so i'm a little that so i'm excited to try it but the part i'm really excited about is i was so i'm a dessert girl i've like i love me a good dessert i love trying desserts that are basically famous or well known for wherever we are at um be that a state or different country um and it looked like there was one called watermelon what was it i should have

[4:52] written it down uh strawberry watermelon strawberry watermelon yeah and they said it's um one of the most viral desserts you can try the most instagrammed yeah dessert yeah the world which reminds me um we are going to actually log this out and it will be posted on this channel um whenever we're so i think we're gonna do some fun story stuff when we're there and kind of on the way but then we are gonna put together um a video just talking about our time there i think it'll be really fun we've never really done anything like that before we kind of filmed some stuff when we went to western states and but never really states for the 98 percent of people who have no idea it's true um so western states is kind of like the super bowl for ultra marathoning it's a 100 mile race in basically 24 hours one day um and it was so much fun to go to we got to see some really awesome ultra marathon runners it's near lake tahoe yeah yeah granted it is 100 mile race and so near anywhere is a little bit uh relative yeah a little bit relative um but yeah beautiful beautiful spot oh i loved lake

[6:08] tahoe highly recommend i want to go back i want to go back to western states which i we're kind of talking with some family that you might try to make that happen maybe next year next year yep so anyways yeah we're going when you guys hear this we'll be four days out from sydney um check us out on socials we're going to post some daily stuff and then also going to have a little vlog about our time there i think it'll be really fun and you know i'm going in with low expectations for the race i think i'm i really just want to enjoy the moment and not hopefully not feel the post marathon exhaustion as bad as i have in the past i think my best feeling marathon at this point was definitely chicago and i still didn't even feel great then for sure but uh yeah So one thing that I was just kind of reflecting on, you know, if you and this is kind of thematic to the podcast, but if you could go back and, you know, four years ago, let's say, and say that the if you could have heard all those things you just described, how on a scale of one to 10, how connected to reality would you feel that that would have been?

[7:25] Like going on, like running a marathon with you, running, running a marathon, going to Sydney, doing all these things. Yeah, no, I, I think that's the crazy thing about looking back. I don't think I would have even thought something like that would be happening, especially running marathons with you because you, I know we've said it viscerally hated running. You hated the idea of running and to think that, and I remember telling you, I thought about running a marathon and how not okay with that you were because of how long it was going to take for training. I mean, I was right. It does take a lot of time for training. Yeah. I mean, and it's pretty exhausting. But you're pretty smoked from the day and going to Sydney. And I mean, I thought I did think we were going to travel, but I didn't have Sydney on the radar. I always thought it was going to be more going to Europe first together because I actually have never been to Europe. I'm really excited to get to do that someday. We'll do it soon enough. Yeah. So yeah, it's just crazy. What about you? What would you think? I mean, I would say most stuff that I spend my time doing and thinking about pretty unrecognizable.

[8:43] Yeah. I mean, it's a good reminder that if you have hopes, dreams, things that you're wanting to chase that just because that feels maybe distant or, um, a lot, a lot different than your current experience and your current day to day, um, that changes and changes in probably ways you don't expect in some ways maybe you do or hope, but, um, yeah, definitely a good reminder that you don't need to just keep going down the path because it's the path you're going down, that can change. And it doesn't ever feel like that happens overnight. Like, you know, one day may not feel dramatically different than the one prior, but you can make small adjustments over time and it can be a lot different. Yeah, it is. It's just like taking those little steps every day and it yeah eventually ripples into something really big um okay well moving along time for some questions time for some questions all right so uh last time we had a little bit of fun uh answering some unanswered questions on reddit and so we're gonna gonna keep down that vein and see if we can have some fun doing that again so katy you wanna and hopefully i can um

[9:59] talk through these a little easier than i did last time katy's done so much studying i mean stayed up all night practicing making sure that like i i can only imagine these are just going to be perfect questions yeah and i you know i'm looking at this uh username and we're gonna we're gonna go for it so this comes from proc horudu row oh yeah i know that guy proc horud row i think i got that right we'll go with it okay so flawless um can good habits be formed when going through a crisis period so this person um basically said you know they have good weeks sometimes trying to form some micro habits but then there's just longer stretches where they feel very anxious anxious and hopeless and they slip and they just haven't gotten to where they want to be so what are your thoughts on yeah i'm trying to find my notes is this at the top uh yeah it's yep it's like the second question okay yeah oh good i didn't make any notes on this one that's yeah sorry um no so can can you make changes during a crisis period um so obviously when you're going through hard times like that

[11:16] is going to be a big uh um a lot of mental energy is going to be spent on that. And so like, I want to acknowledge that first and foremost. But I will also say that a lot of habit formation is environment based and environment can be, you know, who you spend your time around or, um, you know, where you live and the people around you. Uh, but it can also be the stuff that you do in a day to day. Um, and if you're going through crisis time, um, that is going to be, you know, something that is different than maybe the, the typical experience environment that you're in. Yeah. And so while not an ideal way to have a environmental shift, um, it is an environmental shift of sorts. And because of that, that actually is i mean scientifically proven a time to make change um so i mean there is that like there's like the the classic study on the on the topic is um i think it's from vietnam or something where it was something like uh 30 or 60 some some much higher than the population um normally

[12:32] uh of soldiers in vietnam tried heroin uh and it's a very addicting drug and so got themselves addicted but then when they came back to the united states like they almost all quit um because it that habit formation was very much tied to that environment and then coming back um the new environment and things that normally would have been really hard to change um in fact like the actual success rate of heroin uh uh correction in a like a like a rehab facility is something like 10 percent um it was such a big environmental shift that like the actual rate of um of being clear from that was something like i don't know 90 some odd percent or something like that that's crazy so and that's like with addictive substances and stuff like that, that that was true. And so certainly if there are things that are more just habitual, um, that's even more able to be changed. And so if you have an environmental shift, um, yeah, I would say while again, not ideal to have crisis be the catalyst, I think

[13:48] it is, it can be a catalyst. And so in that, in that sense, I think if there are things that you can focus on. And one of the other questions, um, you could talk about like what that, what, what might be good things to start with. Um, but yeah, I, I think it can, I think it can. Yeah. And I think to be kind to yourself, if you are going through that, don't beat yourself up. If you don't have the best day, you know, get up and try again, little changes like we've, we already kind of talked about. Um, if you just take those little steps, it can be big impact. But one thing I was kind of interested about with this question is I feel like even when you gave up alcohol and that did feel a little bit of a crisis period for our relationship, how did, I mean, you obviously formed really good habits during that because you made a decision that you were going to be done. And can you talk through that a little bit of how what was your own personal experience with these forming good habits in a time of crisis and kind of what your mindset was during that time? Sure. Well, first off, you know, it

[15:04] really does come down to focusing in on the one thing that you want to do better. And some of those things might be things that need to be precursors to that. So building a, I think one of the, and this is one of my things I had wrote on the notes to another question, but I'll steal a little bit from it here. I think one of the best habits that a person can do, if you're willing to give it a try, is reading. I think that being in the habit of having input into your brain that is not social media or just TV or Netflix, YouTube, whatever, having something, and I would lump podcasts a little bit into this depending on the type, but some kind of input that is informative or can give you information or tools um i think that is an incredibly valuable thing and honestly i think people who don't read don't give it a proper chance most books are reasonably entertaining especially if they've kind of bubbled to

[16:20] the top of popular culture um they're it's rare that i buy a book on audible and it not be at least like something that i finish like i've i've not finished a couple books, I'm sure. But I mean, if it's something that I've found or something that you've found, likelihood of it being at least pretty good is pretty high. It just by nature of, you know, the fact that you're not finding just a bunch of crap on Audible usually. Yeah. Yeah. And I think if you're not one to want to sit and read a book, if that's hard for you, Audible or audiobooks is such a great way to get into reading and because you can literally just pop in your headphones and you know listen to it when you have time I know even for me I like both I like to sit and read and then I also like to listen to audible and especially being a busy mom and having two kiddos that I'm chasing around and trying to get to places I will sometimes if I'm waiting at the bus stop i will listen to 10 minutes of my audiobook you know just take it take it where you can yeah um it doesn't have to be a super planned out thing i mean it can be but just take those times and those moments where you're

[17:35] driving in the car by yourself or um doing the dishes to to listen to your your audiobooks or um and then when you're going to bed if you if you want to read like you can read at that point but yeah i definitely think people should give reading a fair shot. Cause it is so, it's just such a nice thing for your brain to, to not, I don't know, just to be listening to that or reading that. Um, yeah. And to get back to your question, um, the, the thing that I did, uh, and I would recommend, especially in a crisis, but I think it's important just for change and habits in general is not to boil the ocean and, and figure out what the what the main thing needs to be yeah and honestly if there's other things then perhaps indulge in that a little bit in the meantime while you work on the one thing so like uh when i uh stopped drinking i didn't give a frick about what i ate like whatever like if i wanted to have a cheeseburger i had a cheeseburger if i wanted to have ice cream i had ice cream like it doesn't like this is not a problem to solve right now like eating healthier um i certainly knew that i wanted to do that. And, um, that would ultimately be a thing that I would, you know, try to do better over time. But initially there was just one thing to focus on, uh, and, and let

[18:53] the rest of it be sorted out later. Um, and, and I think that's really important because oftentimes like the motivation cycle, there's going to be times where it's high. And, um, and this is true if you're going through crap at the time, or, or you're like, it's just a normal day. Um, motivation's a weird fickle thing, but when it's high, you're going to feel like, oh man, I can, I can reflect all these things about myself. And I have all these things that I want to change. And I'm going to, and maybe you are able to ride that wave for a day or two or three or four, but eventually like that will go back down the other side. And, you know, you've built up all these things that you're kind of holding up using motivation uh but then you come down the other side and and you no longer have the tide of motivation to help hold all these things and all of a sudden the tide's rolled out and you're still just trying to hold all these things um it's gonna fall if you have just one thing that you're trying to hold on to you can you can still hold that even as the tide goes out yeah hold it with both hands yeah hold hold it with both hands yeah yeah i think that that's a good thing that's a good that's a good quote hold it with both hands uh whatever it is that you're trying to change hold

[20:09] it with both hands yeah and it's funny that you say that because um when you were going through completely giving up alcohol i remember you were on a candy kick oh yeah we were like suckers specifically the chupalupa or yeah chupaloops chupaloops and it was the coca-cola so we kind of so yeah yeah so back to just made me remember that that was something that you uh you had never seen you so into hard candy in my life but i'm still pretty hard into hard candy if i'm being honest that's it stuck that's still a weak spot for sure um okay so we'll move on to the next question it is from Zari Bakari and then it is talking about how do I make a change they are saying that they have debilitating ADHD and are really trying to get out of basically kind of bad habit cycles they want to have they have clear goals but um and they know what they want but they don't know how to start and what are some

[21:25] actual techniques to break out of a cycle and they and they actually said funny enough i feel like this is a good kind of piggyback questions they don't have to be healthy ones just want to get rid of their bad habits to create some good ones yeah i mean it's gonna sound a lot of the same stuff uh that we talked about last time i will say on on so this question specifically i i can see a lot of myself in this as a almost assuredly adhd undiagnosed person and uh also going through you know periods of my life which is you know very much chasing that um and and i i would say it is a very easy cycle to fall into so first off um you're definitely not alone and you mentioned that in the question but the you know being in that, uh, dopamine cycle, whether that's scrolling social media or, uh, you know, whatever other habit that your brain has been hijacked a bit off of, um, that that's a common state right now. Um, but I do think, uh, you know, you, you mentioned ADHD as a debilitating, debilitating, um, circumstance for you. And certainly there are negative aspects of ADHD. And I also don't want

[22:40] like overly generalized in the statement because i do know that it's not like it's like a yes no check box right like there's varying degrees of that but i'd say for the vast majority of people if you can learn how to create a healthy environment for your brain so that you don't get spiraled into these habits that it can be much more of a superpower than a debilitating thing and so i i would i would encourage you to change how you frame that a little bit uh because i i think that can be a massive asset yeah so and i was looking here kind of some notes you put is um a good book and then also something like starting to prove to yourself that you could do something like meditation yeah so sorry i kind of went on a random ramble there but yeah one of the, one of the, one of the books that I've read on the topic that I really enjoyed and I think would be worth a read for you is dopamine nation. I can't remember who it's by, but, um, if you just Google dopamine book, uh, you'll find it. Um, it's like the most popular, uh, piece of literature on the topic. Uh, but, uh, yeah, to, to your point, one thing that I did do early

[23:56] on and a bunch of changes that I did was, was meditation because I had a hard time quieting my brain and I'm not the sort of person who would naturally incline themselves towards something like sitting in silence for 10 minutes. Uh, that is not the sort of thing that I enjoy doing. Typically I like to do stuff. But I found that practice to be really interesting. For one, it was so different than how I spent literally every other second of my waking time. It does stand out and you do reflect on that and you do think about that throughout the day. So it's kind of a, just because it's so different. How often do you just sit there and not do anything for 10 minutes? at any point i mean that that to me was a big shift but it is also proof that because spoiler if you spend the time to do meditation on a regular basis you'll get better at doing that and you are able to have longer stretches of time where you're not just completely bubbling around thoughts and obviously that goes up and down but you're you're

[25:13] able to get better and i would say meditation is like the antithesis of adhd dopamine spirals and so to prove on something that is as counter to your problem that you're describing as possible i think it is it's a helpful helpful framing to realize oh yeah i can i can definitely do this like i i can figure stuff out. I can, I can figure out ways to not just always go to what feels the best at the time. And, and so I, yeah, that would, that would be a thing I would recommend. Uh, and that's coming from a person who generally fairly skeptical on that sort of thing, but I found it tremendously helpful. Yeah. I remember when you did meditation, which you didn't even tell me that you were trying, you just kind of started to do it. Um, you came to me and told me that you were starting to do it and actually recommended it for me and said that you felt rejuvenated afterwards you you would described it as you know that feeling you get after a really good workout how like rejuvenated you feel that was how you were feeling after that meditation time and i do think there's definitely something to quieting your mind and not feeling the constant go go

[26:31] go that our society is right now it's a quiet time and I think for your body and your mind it just has such a great um result for us to do that and I think it's something we need to do better about is our meditation I but yeah I just remember specifically when you started that you told me that that was so shocking to me of because I'm like I didn't tell you at first because I was just embarrassed yeah because it's like i am not this you're not but i did the thing and um yeah it's a funny thing like why why would we why would i be embarrassed about that i mean why why is anybody shy about mentioning the fact that they started going to the gym or something like that like i mean i get why it happens and i know what that feels like for sure you know if you're in the early stages of something there's like imposter syndrome and like you you've just kind of declared that i'm the sort of person who does the thing, but everybody who's ever started anything has done that. That like definitionally is true. So I feel like we should destigmatize the feeling of I'm giving a thing a try and, and that should

[27:47] be a thing that we celebrate, which most people would celebrate with you. Uh, the, the, the imposter syndrome stuff and how that makes you feel is almost assuredly in your head. I mean, certainly there's some people who are not supportive, uh, but most people are good people and most people are going to be excited for you to try your new thing and hear about it. Yeah, I totally agree with that. Um, okay. So I'm going to move on to the next question, which is just right for your own benefit. Jeff, right under the other one. Got it. Um, how do you actually build self-control and discipline? And this is from sufficient shower 438. And so they said they have few productive days. Um, they're, you know, they really deal with procrastination and they feel disappointed in themselves and they don't want to depend on motivation anymore. Um, and how do they build that discipline? But, and then you have basically boys answer the question. What would you tell your past self if you had to start building discipline from zero? Yeah. That when I was reading through, um, it actually was cut off on like my notes and I clicked into this question and I, and I saw that last little

[29:03] bit. Um, what would you tell yourself if you had to start building discipline from zero? Very interesting question. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on that as I consider you as a much more naturally disciplined person. Um, but I can definitely share a little bit, um, from, from my side. Do you, do you have, uh, an answer for like, if you had to start from zero, let's say you just, you woke up from a coma and you're now erased all of the, all of the good habits that you've built over time, what would you, well, and I actually think so when, when we were decided, when we decided to start our family, part of the thing that I had to do was really cut back on my exercise in order to do that. Um, and I think, I mean, I did basically for, I don't know how many years, four years really didn't, I mean, I would walk, but it was nothing to what I had been doing in the past. So I kind of did had to, had to rebuild that, um, desire and that, I don't want to say motivation, but that discipline.

[30:19] Um, and I, first of all, I was kind to myself because I had little kids little babies and um I wanted to be able to still be able to be a good mom but also take care of myself and I would basically just take it day by day kind of like what you've said don't boil the ocean and um don't think about such a huge picture just take it lay your clothes out the night before. Um, and, and honestly, one of my favorite times of the day is my coffee time. So I would be intentional to go. Cause I know at this point, like you weren't working out with me to go drink my coffee out in the living room, kind of reflect on the morning. And then my workout was the next thing. Cause this is when I would go to our basement and I would cycle. That was what I did because i was able to stay home and um not have to leave because that was really the only option but well the other thing i did is i found something that i found really fun is at that time it was peloton on demand i found instructors that i loved and i really got to a point where i

[31:35] looked forward to that. So like I made it fun for myself. I, which I know we've also kind of discussed is I found ways to make it fun. I found instructors that I loved. And I think if you stick with that and you, you don't, and like, I didn't have to necessarily be doing the thing to be able to find something that made it fun like I would sit on my phone while the kids were napping and kind of read about different instructors or plan out my classes for the next day I would look at their playlist and see if that was what bless you oh and the camera even got you thanks camera um and I don't know I think finding ways to make it fun is so important so if you which I know I kind of went to the working out for motivation. Cause I think that's such a typical one that people think of for motivation and, you know, building those good, healthy habits, but it really can be anything. It can be reading something fun. Let's read like to read if it's eating healthy, find ways to make healthy foods taste in a way that you might enjoy. I think

[32:51] getting the fun factor into it, however you need to, and spending the time to think it through on how you can make it fun is really important yeah honestly the last thing that you said there i think is is really critical is you have to take some time to actually figure this stuff out like you are going to have to reclaim some of your time the the number one way that you end up down a path of you know just doing the same thing over and over and over and over again is if you wake up and you go down you know that path that is the thing that you don't want and then you get to the end of the day and you're tired and then you you know veg out and do whatever and then you go to bed you wake up repeat you have to find some sliver of that whether that's in the morning whether that's uh in the evening, whether that's at lunch, something, something you need to do to take some intentional time to figure out some of this stuff. One other thing I want to add to is, sorry, I didn't want to interrupt, but I just like thought of something is find times where you have your most energy. If that be when you first wake up, if that

[34:09] be when you, if you have more, you know, more energy when you come home from work which is personally i don't see how that is a thing but i know for some people that is it but find those prime times where you feel like you have the most energy to do something and capitalize on that i think that is so important and making sure that you get enough pre-rest prior to that to make so you can actually capitalize on that prime time that you have Yeah. I think that's just like an easy applicable tool that somebody could take that wanted to build that discipline is, OK, when do you have when are you going to have the best time for that discipline? Yeah. And plan around that. Yeah. And there's I've always so this is kind of going into some random sidebar, but I've always wondered how much when people describe themselves as a night person versus a morning person. Right. I wonder how much of that is just driven by the habits that they live, because I I think like if I were to take

[35:25] a test on my self, especially in the past, I would almost certainly be a night person because I am willing to stay up super late doing whatever. and like classic video game till 2 3 4 a.m type person like that was my history um and but now like last night we went to bed at you know 9 30 yeah honestly i could have gone to bed at nine some some days i do go to bed at nine like super super early but it's not because of anything shifting and how I prefer to spend like my waking hours. Like I, I do that because I have to wake up early to either record this podcast or go on runs or whatever. Um, and then I just do that. And then that becomes the habit. And like, and certainly that's taken a lot of time to get to that point, but now I'm a morning person in the sense that like, it's rare for us to wake up beyond five, five 30, something like that. Like, and so, you know, definitionally I'm up in the morning and I'm definitely most

[36:41] energized in the morning. Yeah. But I, yeah, I just, I wonder how much of that is just a summary or a result of what, how you spend your time, whether you're a morning person or or not and like honestly i think if you spend your time and build your habits and build your life around doing certain things um such that you go to bed early wake up i i find it hard to imagine and again maybe i'm just looking at this through a narrow lens. Um, but even as a self proclaimed prior evening person, um, I couldn't imagine being more clear headed, more motivated, more, um, energized in the evening for stuff like this, then I would be first thing in the morning. Like when I went to bed last or in the evening last night, like I can kind of go through like little anxiety, anxiety spirals and, um, be worried about things. Uh, and then on the other side of that, I wake up in the morning, like, ah, there's no problems that I can't solve. Like I

[37:56] can, I can do anything. It's all fine. Um, nothing, nothing changed in the seven and a half hours that I was, uh, unconscious, but everything changed. Like every, every part of my brain chemistry changed. And, and I am in a completely different state of mind in the morning than i am in the evening so i genuinely don't know what it would be like to be a night owl i am since i was yeah you've never been young have always been a yeah wake up in the morning singing songs drinking my coffee so happy it's a new day because i remember in grade school when i would go have sleepovers with other girlfriends or other friends um i was the one that got the pranks pulled on them because i could not stay awake at night it's like my body just shuts down about after if i make it to 10 30 11 then yeah i've i've made it to basically in my books to like 2 or 3 a.m but yeah i i can't even fathom what it would be like to be able to just power on in the evening so i'm a little biased and yay mornings get your stuff done in the

[39:13] mornings but i know people a lot of people prefer evenings and but yeah i couldn't imagine what that would be like to be able to stay awake so late in the evenings okay um so i want to get back to the question like what would you do if you're starting from square zero uh and for me i i would think of like which things have the highest leverage on me so like the the natural thing that you go to are things that are a little bit more visible so like you know start running or or working out or something like that that's what people talk about but i i don't think that's the that's the answer at all i think if you are struggling with this i think the number one thing that can have the biggest impact uh how about the two things that will have the biggest impact. I already mentioned before reading and we've talked a lot about sleep. Um, I'm going to, I'm going to go down those two roads real quick and explain a little bit why, but I think those are probably the two biggest things that you can do one reading because it's easy. You can pop on an audio book while you're doing other things. Um, and you don't really need to fit any more time into your life. Uh, you can reallocate stuff just while you're already doing things and i think getting

[40:29] that voice in your head of positive things that you can intentionally do it's really really easy to pick a good like okay i want to learn about this topic and so i'm going to buy this book and i'm going to click library on audible and i'm going to click play and then now that's the stuff that i listen to and i'm going to be better for it for having learned some of these things you're going to learn stuff over time and that can shape who you become? So like, that's, that's one of them really easy. Uh, and, and, and could be something that you just start and then you're, you're down that path and you're sold for the next week on how you spend your time. Like as far as like just kind of that passive thing. Um, the first active thing that I would do is, um, is figure out what time do I need to wake up in my day? And then I would subtract eight hours and then I would go to bed. Um, and, and, and every, everything that you do is going to be a lot easier if you're able to figure out how to sleep. Uh, and you know, how often are you going to actually go to bed right then? Uh, probably not a ton. Um, but if you shoot for eight hours of sleep and you get seven hours and 15, that's going

[41:46] to be a heck of a lot better than what most people do yeah um and and the rest of anything else that you want to do you have a reading habit and you're getting rested everything else is going to be a hundred times easier yeah and i think there's like app like really applicable ways to for the getting to bed um on time is like for me i have you know my nightly ritual brush my teeth wash my face um, do that earlier in the evening where you are setting yourself up for success to be able to get to bed early enough. And I know for some people in different seasons, it's just not possible right now. Sleep is hard, especially with little ones and, um, you know, toddlers and little babies, but, you know, just do the best you can to try to make it as easy on yourself as possible to make sure you're getting your head on that pillow or on the bed um on a time that works and then another thing i wanted to say is i saw you haven't even told me about it yet but you were working on a little tool and i think it was maybe just personally for you to basically like plan out your hours of how you're going like it's kind of like so you seem kind of like time blocking in a

[43:01] way like yeah planning out your day i saw you working on something like that but i thought you might want to talk about that. Yeah, maybe here in a second. Um, so first off I wanted to address, like if you're in a season, like as we've been, if you have a new puppy or you have kids, like new kids, uh, you have newborns and stuff like that. Uh, and you're going through hard sleep seasons. I would say I just quadruple down on my advice as that is the most important, highest leverage thing you can. Uh, it's going to require a higher effort, but I mean, you might have to go to the Frick to bed at 6 PM. I don't know. Like if, if that, if you're going to have to wake up multiple times throughout the night, uh, the idea of like, well, I'm just going to have to live on, you know, four quality hours of sleep is that's just a recipe that the next two years are going to be incredibly, incredibly hard. I, I would say I would just quadruple down on figuring out what that looks like. And, you know, that, that will require sacrifices and it is going to probably require you to set an alarm on your phone to go to bed instead of alarm on your phone to, to wake up. And, uh,

[44:18] you'll have to like, if there's any, any part of the motivation that you can muster, um, it is going to have to be, to be disciplined in listening to like i made this commitment that i'm going to start getting ready for bed now and and once you start like once you start down the road of like kind of going through your bedtime routine um it is going to be likely that you'll be able to result in yourself going to bed um but that can't be then disrupted by like all right and now i'm going to watch a youtube video or whatever like you have to be done doing all that stuff because you'll just end up back in the same cycle it's hard to go to bed early but it's not impossible and i think it's the highest leverage thing you can do in general but if you're in a hard season of sleep anyways i think it is the most important thing that a person can do yeah and i think too if you know work with your partner if you have a partner to make sure that you guys are on like on the same team with everything make sure everyone's aligned because i could just see if somebody was like all right i'm out i'm going to bed at six a little bit of a shock. Um, but you know, get, get aligned with your partner, get aligned with your spouse and make sure that, you know, everyone's understanding what the, what

[45:34] the end goal is. And, um, I don't know, just making sure to keep that open communication if that is your season. So, um, you mentioned the hours thing, uh, in like that inventory stuff that I have. I'll mention that at the end, but, or at least a little bit later. Um, so we talked about reading, talked about, um, sleep, uh, sleep being just to be like concrete in why I'm saying that that matters so much is it has such an outsized impact on your mental health that I, it, that's why I prioritize that is, is because you will be in a much better headspace to be able to do your whole rest of your life and also be able to find other things that are things that you can change and actually have the energy to do something about that. Um, and it is probably the thing I would also then point to that it can be the biggest trap is if you're so tired that you can never spend the time and energy toward improving yourself, then you're not going to, and then you're going to be still so tired. It's like a vicious cycle. So, um, that's why I think of sleep as the highest leverage thing that you probably do along with reading, just because reading is so easy and has such a high

[46:50] potential upside because spoiler, even learning about sleep or learning about any of these other things, I think, um, my number one piece of advice is to read a ton of stuff about the stuff that you want to change. Um, having that constant voice is makes it top of mind and it makes it more likely that you're going to follow through. So that's, that's my readings on there. Um, and then, so if sleep improves your, uh, mental health a lot, um, the next thing that I would say is just continue down that path is to set yourself up for better mental health. And the next biggest impact thing, in my opinion, is to find some kind of movement for your body. Uh, we are not meant to sit at a desk or sit on a couch all day and then lay in bed and fall asleep and go through your life that way. Uh, we need to move. It is also very, very proven, uh, scientifically that, you know, that, that does greatly improve brain chemistry and longevity and long. Yeah. Right. There's, there's lots of other reasons why you should do this. Um, yeah, not, not dying is cool. Like one of the top things I tried to do

[48:05] every day. And, and, and that certainly will help you down that path. Um, so there's, there's other benefits too, but specifically talking about like, I want to start making positive changes in my life. If you can start reading and you can start sleeping, the next thing is go on walks or start running or start working out. Um, and, and this will even require you to go to bed even earlier because you'll be even more exhausted and you are much more likely to fall off the wagon if you are sleep deprived because then you're going to want to sleep in and you're not going to have time then you're like oh i'm going to do this after work instead of before work but then you realize you're freaking exhausted after work you just want to go lay down and like uh so like you're you're going to have to realize that hey it's not just an additive thing to start running or start lifting or go on going on morning long walks or something like that. Um, it is going to have to come at a trade and that trade is basically, I'm going to probably have to eat a tiny bit more cause I'm going to be hungrier. So you're going to have to plan for that. And then I'm going to have to go to bed a little bit earlier cause my body actually needs to recover because i actually use my body um but there is no superpower uh more than you

[49:23] know having a week where you do a good job of working out and you get plenty of sleep um and if you're feeding in your brain uh through reading and you're sleeping and you're moving your body in some way um then you get into some real fun opportunities to, to, to take your, what your days and what your weeks and what your months and what your years are spent on. Um, you can do that with a lot more intentionality if you do those things. Yeah, no, I think that's really good. Um, I'm going to totally change our topic. Hold on, hold on. Before we do that, I do want to talk, uh, like a, then what's next? Uh, because you, you mentioned my little hour blocking thing, which, um, I've alluded to, uh, one other, uh, episode, but, uh, I'll, I'll have it out someday and I'll probably make a video about it as well. Um, but I do think that then taking an inventory of how you spend your time is super helpful to do. It's sometimes, uh, eyeopening, I would say would be how I describe it as to, you know, how much time do I spend on fill in the blank activities? And, you know, that starts by okay like if i want there's 112 waking hours in a week and if you sleep at eight

[50:38] hours a day and so how do i spend those 112 hours and you know you spend 40 of them or you know some odd number of them at uh at work and then like getting to and from and then there's like you know just other routine things that you do but then what am i left with and then how am i currently feeling filling that and then am i happy with that and if i want to add something else what would that look like? And, and, and really looking at your day and looking at your week and how you allocate those hours, um, there's often a lot of room for improvement in that. And again, it's not about boiling the ocean. It's not like, all right, I'm now going to be a perfect schedule robot boy. Uh, it is just like, okay, what is, what is my next highest leverage thing that I want to do? Uh, or maybe it's, you know, I've, I've improved a little bit on sleep, but I really want to see what it would be like to get eight hours. And so this is what I would need to shift around, or maybe I want to work out longer. And I think there's something to seeing it visually too, like actually seeing that timeline essentially broke out. It's always very, I know I'm a very visual person and seeing something like how I'm spending my time it is sometimes very shocking and

[51:55] also very eye-opening and all and then i think visually it can make it almost feel i don't know more more motivating more disciplined to to make those changes i don't know i'm just such a visual person i think it's a really interesting thing it's an eye-opening experience yeah but yeah that'll be that'll be a video or a topic for another day but yeah yeah okay so shifting a little bit okay i have a question jeff yes how's learning about advertising going? Oh, advertising. Can we do the, uh, the con? Is it okay to compliment a person? Oh, you want to do that question? Okay. I didn't know if we had enough time. I just wanted to know. I just, I had to know. Okay. So we were looking at questions and one of the ones that popped up is this is from initial Maleficent nine five four. Is it rude to compliment people on their weight loss? And specifically mentioning when you say so, not just that you look nice, but that, Hey, you look good. You look like you've lost some weight. You look great. Yeah. So, uh, I'm curious. Cause I, I first asked like, well, how would you answer this? Because depending on how you answer this makes me feel like we should talk about it on the podcast or not, because if we just say I haven't, if we have the same opinion, then that's no fun. Uh, but so Katy, what was your answer? So when, cause we were picking

[53:12] out questions and i'm like oh yeah kinda i mean if someone loses weight i think it's better to come at them hey you look great i just wanted to let you know um i don't know that's how you would do it i don't know i don't feel like i've been like oh yeah dude you've lost some weight i just think that's so i don't know i don't i just i wouldn't do that to somebody i mean maybe the conversation could the lead there. Hey, you look great. What have you been doing? Oh yeah. I've been really watching what I've been eating and been trying to exercise. Oh wow. That's, that's awesome. I'm so happy for you. I just think that if you come out at that hot, it's a little bit weird. Uh, maybe it is a little bit weird. So, um, as a person who has lost like 60 pounds twice in my life, um, or actually, yeah, I was gonna say, isn't even more, even more. Yeah. But anyways, as a person who has looked very different over time. Very different. Um, the, I've had people on both sides of this. Um, I can say, I, I think anybody who has put in the time and effort and has gotten to the point where someone else is noticing almost certainly for them, it's been a very big

[54:29] deal. Uh, and so they are quite aware that they have lost some weight. Uh, if it's visibly apparent that you would feel uh willing to say something you're not going to be wrong um and so i i guess my my thing is is i've always appreciated when people just say it because i think it is fun to just talk about because yeah i have worked really hard at this thing and uh proud of that and i i feel like i look good i'm glad that you noticed that i've lost some weight that's cool um to the point where uh i i actually it's funny that i the reason why i wanted to talk about this is like i've had a couple people um that i've done this to just recently uh including the ceo of the company that i work for um like dude you've lost some weight you look really good and just having the confidence just to say it um and uh or saying something along the lines of hey you've lost some weight haven't you um and then be like yeah yeah yeah trying to get healthy and do some other things and like i i think i think it's just a very validating experience to just call it like it is and not just say like uh because like you can look nice if you just got a haircut and like that's cool and all but it's not representative of a ton of work um i think if you just say it like just say the thing it's that's what like i don't think we should hide the

[55:44] fact that like we naturally are just gonna be like yeah proud of like a person looks healthier and stuff and like we should just call it out like we're tired at it but it can get to pin too like if someone who doesn't need to lose weight i don't don't make well obviously don't be an idiot no so like this is for people that you know had some weight to lose and hi you look like you could die at any second like just you've been losing weight that is not what i'm talking about i did not yeah I didn't go from, you know, one 80 to one 10. Uh, I, that was not my experience. So, um, no. Yeah. Thank you for clarifying. Yeah. I know psychopathic jerk. Yeah. Just, uh, just, you know, healthier choices. Do we want to, do we want to hit that last one that you have? Yeah. So how's learning about advertising? Yeah. Let's talk about, let's talk about the business. Um, so yeah. Um, marketing is hard. Marketing is so hard. who knew and i yeah it when i thought about doing some of the initial app stuff um and building a software development company basically the the things that you think are going to be hard are technical and figuring out how to make

[57:01] all this stuff work uh turns out that's just the freaking child's play part of it um actually learning how to do advertising and what retargeting is and what you know how to how to set all this stuff up and ab testing and then like optimizing landing pages so people actually do anything that you want them to do like still feel very much in the middle of it and so it's just a little bit hard like what i mentioned you know i kind of get in like ups and downs of like anxiety spirals like this is exactly what i'm talking about right now like it's like the oh my gosh i'm like am i a person who can even figure this crap out um i i'm now having slept reasonably well like i feel back to can conquer the world type uh energy but i acknowledge fully like it is a truly tough thing yeah it's hard like i'm i'm over here reading books i'm listening to my own yeah i'm gonna say my own medicine yeah you are because you're you got lots of books and pretty suasion uh by robert c aldini and going through some other things about just like kind of learning the psychology of advertising and what makes people do things. And, uh, man though, holy cow, it's hard. It's a competitive space. Um, you're vying for people's attention. It's, it's

[58:19] tough. It's a skill. Um, and a skill that I grossly underestimated the amount of time and effort. But, uh, one thing that, you know, I've mentioned before, but you know, as I go farther and farther into it, uh, helps me stay motivated is the fact that how many people can do the technical side and also are willing to learn all of the, the advertising stuff to the marketing stuff. Um, and, and so yes, it is a competitive space and yes, it is really hard. Um, and there's lots of, lots of challenges on both sides of that coin but i'm willing to keep going and uh you know i'm going to continue to learn and when i look back even though it feels overwhelming now if i had to go back to a month ago with the knowledge that i have um and and realize like how much of a gap that is like it's significant like i've i know a heck of a lot more than i did a month ago yeah and that has been true since every every day that has gone by since starting the business that's been that's been true and so as i look forward yes i don't have all of the

[59:36] things that i need in order to make this be successful but i am adding knowledge every single day and if i keep doing that do i think that the outcome is that we can figure this out and the answer is yes i do and so continue on continue forward persevere yep but it is it's really hard stinking hard and it's kind of fun though it was fun filming the little ad we have art for meta and jeff did a great job and so more to come we're gonna get better at this and bring it on marketing all right we're to the housekeeping part of the show so real quick um if you didn't already click subscribe uh we love that um if you have any questions whether it's your own or things you found or things you're curious about uh or just want to say hi email us at buildhorizons.com and with that i will turn it over to katy to sign us off thank you for building with us and we are cheering you on